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REPORTER'S DAILY TRANSCRIPT SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA SHARON RUFO, ET AL., N/A, PLAINTIFFS, SANTA MONICA, CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT NO. WEE (REGINA D. CHAVEZ, OFFICIAL REPORTER) THE COURT: At this time, the Court will address the motion of Copley's MS. SAGER: Good morning. Kelli Sager on behalf of the nonparty media Our argument has been set forth in the motion. I don't want to take up We have not received any opposition from any of the parties. I presume The blank questionnaires, it was our understanding, would be released We're not asking for identifying information such as names, addresses, And since there have been no findings of any compelling interest I'm happy too answer any questions the Court has or if any opposition THE COURT: The blank questionnaires are ordered released. The The questionnaires with regards to the jurors sitting in the jury Court's inspection of the questionnaires convinces the Court that My information is that, on prior cases, the jurors' identities have The jurors are not sequestered. It is important that the identity of The Court is satisfied that it's necessary to protect the identity and Jurors are concerned that they are being pressured by people at their MS. SAGER: Your Honor, if I could ask one question: Does the Court THE COURT: I think the questions and answers are so inextricably MS. SAGER: Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: Bring the jury in. (Time is 9:56 a.m.) (Jurors resume their respective seats.) THE COURT: Morning. JURORS: Good morning. THE COURT: Mr. Kelly, call your next witness. MR. KELLY: Good morning. JURORS: Good morning. MR. KELLY: Your Honor, before we do call the witness, we've stipulated THE COURT: Go ahead. MR. KELLY: Exhibit No. 38, which is Ron Goldman's body with the glove, (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as MR. KELLY: No. 127, which is the kitchen area of 875 South Bundy. (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as MR. KELLY: Number 133, which is a front view of 875 South Bundy. (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as MR. KELLY: Number 27, which is a rear view of 875 South Bundy. (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as MR. KELLY: Number 81, which is a view of the rear gate of the 875 (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as MR. KELLY: Number 82, which is a close-up of the same rear gate. (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as MR. KELLY: No. 142, which is a close-up of the rear gate top in the (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as MR. KELLY: Number 85, which is a view of the rear gate of 875 South (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as MR. KELLY: Number 86, which is a close-up of that same rear gate. (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as MR. KELLY: Then number 92, which is Detective Fuhrman pointing to a (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as MR. KELLY: And number 40, which is a close-up of Detective Fuhrman (The instrument herein described were marked for identification as MR. KELLY: That's all, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. MR. KELLY: Police Officer Robert Riske, please. ROBERT RISKE, called as a witness on behalf of the plaintiffs, was THE CLERK: You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in THE WITNESS: I do. THE CLERK: Please, state and spell both your first and your last names THE WITNESS: Robert Riske: R-O-B-E-R-T, R-I-S-K-E. THE CLERK: Thank you. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. KELLY: Q. Good morning, Officer. A. Good morning. Q. Officer Riske, are you currently employed? A. Yes. Q. And who are you employed by? A. Police officer for the City of Los Angeles. Q. And how long have you been so employed? A. About six and a half years. Q. And on June 13, 1994, were you also employed by the Los Angeles A. Yes, I was. Q. And what was your assignment with the police department at that A. I was assigned to patrol. Q. Okay. And prior to working for the Los Angeles Police Department, A. I was in the Navy for six and a half years. Q. Now, going back to June 13, 1994, you said you were assigned to A. Yes. Q. And out of what district were you assigned to patrol? A. West L.A. Q. Okay. And when you say you were assigned to patrol, did you wear a A. Yes. Q. And what type of vehicle did you drive at that time, as part of A. Marked black and white. Q. Is that one of those cars with the lights on top -- A. Yes. Q. -- and police markings? A. (Witness nods affirmatively.) Q. Now, drawing your attention to June 13, , do you recall what your A. Just I was assigned to Brentwood area. Q. And what were the hours of your duty that day? A. From 11:15 to -- I'm sorry. From 10:30 to 7:15. Q. Was that 10:30 p.m. on June 12 -- A. Right. Q. -- 1994, to 7:15 -- A. 7:15. Q. -- on the 13th. Okay. Now, at approximately 12:09 a.m. on June , 1994, did you receive a A. Yes, I did. Q. And what was the substance of that radio call? A. I believe it was a prowler, a burglary suspect at 874 South Bundy. Q. And was there anybody in the car with you at that time? A. Just my partner. Q. And what was his name? A. Mike Terrazas. Q. As a result of that radio call that you received at 1209 what if A. We drove to 874 South Bundy and we were flagged down. Q. When you say you were flagged down, what exactly did you observe A. I observed a male and female with a dog, coming down the steps of Q. Now, did you approach Bundy from the north or south? A. From Wilshire Boulevard, which would be the south. Q. And you were heading north? A. Right. Q. And as you pulled up to 874 South Bundy, which side of the street A. On the east. Q. Okay. And after making these initial observations, what did you do A. We exited our vehicle and made contact with a female and male. Q. Okay. And other than the male and female, was there anybody else A. No. Q. And you also indicated there was a dog with them, also? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Was that dog running loose or in some other manner? A. It was on a leash. Q. Okay. And can you describe that dog for me. A. I believe it was an Akita. Q. And did you make any observations as to the Akita's condition as A. Not at that time, no. Q. Okay. After you had a conversation with these two people, what, if A. They directed us across the street. They said there was a dead lady Q. And do you recall the area in which -- vicinity -- they directed A. 875 South Bundy. Q. Okay. And as you approached 875 South Bundy, could you describe the A. It was very poor. Q. Dark? A. Dark. Q. Okay. And what about the foliage, if any, around the entrance of A. There is a large, overhanging tree over the walkway. Made it even Q. And were you able to see the front entrance without utilizing your A. No. Q. As you approached 857 South Bundy, where, first, did you direct A. Towards the grassy areas south of the walkway. Q. And did you observe a walkway leading to the front of 875? A. Not really. Q. Okay. So as I understand, you first went to an area that went up to A. Right. Q. Did you have your flashlight on at that time? A. Yes, I did. Q. As you were in that grassy area to the left of the sidewalk of 875 A. No. Q. After your initial observations, which there were none, what, if A. The witnesses directed us to the walkway, which would be to the Q. Okay. That would be to the right of the area you were? A. Right. Q. Okay. What, if anything, did you do after you were directed to that A. I looked down the walkway, using my flashlight, and saw a female Q. Okay. Can you describe that female? A. Female, white and black dress, blond hair. Q. And did you make any other observations as to the area immediately A. There was blood approximately halfway down the walkway. Q. Now, at that time, Officer, on making those observations, would it A. Yes. Q. And being a patrol officer, having just arrived at a crime scene, A. I had called for additional units. We set up for a crime scene, had Q. And are there any other steps that you're required to take in terms A. We have to try to clear it for any additional victims or suspects, Q. And were you taking steps to do that immediately upon these A. Yes. Q. Okay. Now, after you had gone out and dispatched for additional A. I advised my partner, "Grab a hold of the witnesses, find out what We recontacted them, and I observed a dog to have blood on his legs. Q. The Akita you had observed earlier? A. Yes. Q. Now, after you made those observations, what, if anything, did you A. We went back across the street to 875 and approached the female. I MR. KELLY: See if I can have 32, please. Could you make it a little more distant. THE COURT: That's good. Just like that. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Now, Officer, are you able to see that photo that's A. Yes. Q. Could you indicate, first of all for the ladies and gentlemen of A. You can't see it on this photograph; it's like over here, there's a Q. That's where you first went? A. Initially? Right. Q. Now, you indicated that you had called for backup and a supervisor A. Right. Q. And could you indicate where you approached at that time? A. I walked through these plants up to the call box there. Q. And did you at any time step on that walkway going up to 875? A. No, I didn't. Q. Did your partner step on that walkway going up to 875? A. No, he didn't. Q. Now, you also indicated that when you got approximately halfway up A. Yes, that's correct. Q. What was that? A. I saw the body of Mr. Goldman leaning against the north fence. Q. In that photo, as it appears there, there appears to be blood Was that the way it appeared when you arrived there at 12:13 on June A. No. Q. -- 1994? Could you indicate with your pointer approximately how far A. About the midpoint. MR. KELLY: Now, this next photo might be difficult to look at, also. I Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Now, do you recognize that photo, Officer Riske? A. Yes, I do. Q. And what do you recognize that to be? A. That would be the body of Mr. Goldman, as I saw him that night. Q. Okay. And where were you located when you first made that A. I was standing in the foliage next to the call box. Q. And did you attempt to get any closer at that time when you made A. No, I didn't. MR. KELLY: Steve, could you make that a little more distant, please. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Now, in addition to the young male you saw in that A. There's some articles of evidence in this picture. Q. And did you observe them at this time when you had approached the A. Yes, I did. Q. Can you tell me, first of all, what additional items you observed A. The envelope. There's a glove and a hat underneath the plant Q. Okay. First of all, could you point out the envelope, please. A. (Witness indicates.) Q. And is that located exactly where it was when you observed it that A. Yes. Q. And secondly, could you point out the glove you observed. A. This is a bad photo. You can't really see. It's in the same -- it's MR. KELLY: Could you bring it up closer. Steve. A. That would be the glove right there. (Indicating.) Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Okay. And are you able to see a portion of that hat, A. I believe the hat is up here a little farther. Q. If we go down to the lower right, maybe -- MR. BLASIER: Objection. Leading. THE COURT: Sustained. A. Can't really see in that picture. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) If I might, if -- can you step up here for a moment, A. Right. Q. Okay. Now, upon a closer look, do you recall where you observed the A. Yes. Q. Where would that be? A. In the lower right. Q. Can you indicate one more time -- MR. KELLY: Steve, could you back up a little bit. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Now, can you indicate once again where the hat was, A. It's in the lower right. Q. Now, in addition to making those observations, did you make any A. Yes. Q. And what was that? A. There appeared to be a bloody heel mark in the walkway and bloody Q. The bloody heel print, does that appear in that picture there? A. Can't really see it. Q. And with regard to the bloody footprints going up the stairs, was A. Towards the house. Q. Did you observe any bloody footprints in the front sidewalk, going A. No, I didn't. Q. What, if anything, did you do, Officer, after making this second A. I saw the bloody footprints leading towards the front of the house Q. When you stepped over the body, can you describe for us exactly how A. Stay to the far left of the walkway, against the fence. MR. KELLY: Steve, can you take that picture down, first of all. I'm (Steve complies) A. And went up on a landing, toward the front door. Q. And did anybody accompany you at that time? A. My partner. Q. Who was? A. Officer Terrazas. Q. And what, if anything, did you observe as you approached the front A. I observed the footprints that continued westbound through the Q. And did you observe anything other than bloody footprints before A. There was a drop of blood. It was on the left of the footprint. I Q. That was before you reached the front door? A. Right. Q. And when you arrived at the front door, was it opened or closed? A. It was opened. Q. And did the bloody footprints appear to head towards the door and A. They continued westbound on the walkway. Q. As you approached the door, also, was there any indication of a A. No. Q. What, if anything, did you do next as you arrived at the door, A. We entered the residence on the landing, to see if there was any Q. Did you see any doors open? A. No. Q. Any cupboards open? A. No. Q. Any furniture overturned? A. No. Q. Any sign of ransacking? A. No. Q. Any indication that the crime scene extended inside the house? A. No. Q. Any bloody footprints? A. No. Q. Any drops of blood? A. No. Q. Anybody in the house at this time? A. At that time, we didn't check the whole house, no. Q. What, if anything, did you observe after that? A. I observed a lithograph on the wall. It appeared to be O.J. Q. What did you do next, after making those observations? A. I used a phone to call my watch commander. Q. Who was your watch commander? A. Sergeant David Rossi. Q. Now, you usually carry what's called a "rover," do you not? A. Yes. Q. And what is a rover? A. It's a radio, like a walkie-talkie. Q. And would that have put you in communication with your watch A. Yes. Q. And you chose not to use that at that time? A. Yes. Q. And why was that? A. Because the media has scanners and they scan our frequency. If I would have used my radio, told them exactly Q. After you made this phone call, what, if anything, did you do next? A. I went back outside, told my partner to grab the witnesses, and I Q. If I can hold up a little bit. How did you exit the house then? A. Through the front door and down the landing. Q. And how did you go down the landing and the walkway, once again? A. Staying to the far left, away from the blood, stepped over the Q. To the best of your knowledge, did you ever put your foot in the A. No. Q. Did you ever observe your partner? A. No. Q. And when you headed back out that sidewalk, was it in the same A. We just stepped over the bushes and went through the grass. Q. What, avoiding the sidewalk at all times? A. Yes. Q. As you arrived back out on the street, then, after exiting the A. I personally went north in the neighbor's yard, to the north of the Q. First of all, how did you approach the vicinity north of the A. A dirt path that leads back to the fence. Q. Is that a clear path? A. Clear as a path with nothing on it. Q. And did you have your flashlight on at that point? A. Yes, I did. Q. Were you using it at that point? A. Yes. Q. In what manner were you using the flashlight as you approached that A. I shined it on the ground and in the bushes, make sure I didn't Q. Were you looking for additional evidence, if any? A. Yes. Q. Did you see any evidence prior to arriving at the gate, on the A. Just his pager, or a pager. Q. Did you look in the vicinity elsewhere outside the gated area, A. Yes, I did. Q. And did you look in the vicinity east of the gated area towards the A. Yes. Q. When you say you were using a flashlight, Officer, what type of A. It's extremely light; it's aluminum. It's about 30,000 candle Q. That's standard police issue. A. You have to buy it yourself. (Laughter.) Q. Standard police issue if you pay for it? A. Standard police issue would be plastic. Q. Okay. So this was much stronger than a standard police-issue A. Right. Q. Powerful flashlight? A. Right. Q. You personally bought it for that reason? A. Right. Q. Now, after approaching on the north side there, in making these A. I checked Mr. Goldman to see if he was alive. Q. And was he? A. No. Q. And in what manner did you check? A. I touched his eyeball with my finger, checking for involuntary Q. And you were still on the north side, outside the gated area, at A. That's correct. Q. And at that point, where you're with your light, were you able to A. Yes. Q. And the hat? A. I believe the bush was covering the hat. Q. Were you able to see any other items of what appeared to you to be A. No. Q. And then did -- did you leave that area? A. Yes, I did. Q. And what did you do next? A. I went back out to the street. As I did so, Officer Wally and Q. And did anybody else? A. Initially, just those. And then Sergeant Coon arrived a couple of Q. When Wally and McGowan arrived, were they patrol officers, also -- A. Yes. Q. -- in uniform? A. Yes. Q. Driving a black and white? A. Yes. Q. And where did they park their car? A. On the west side of the street, north of, probably, 873. Q. That's on the same side as 875 South Bundy? A. Right. Q. And shortly after they arrived, did someone else arrive there, A. Sergeant Coon. Q. And by the way, Sergeant Coon, that's not the same one from the A. No. Q. Okay. Now, when he arrived, did you have a discussion with him? A. Yes. Q. And what, if anything, did you tell them? A. I just told them we had a double homicide, and where I was, Coon gave out marching orders. Q. What were the marching orders that Sergeant Coon gave out? A. Officer Terrazas was at the rear location, to secure the rear. Q. Taking these one step at a time, did you see how Officer Terrazas A. He left southbound, Bundy and Dorothy. Q. And Dorothy up to the alleyway? A. I saw him go southbound on Bundy. Q. And did you see McGowan start setting up the crime-scene tape? A. Yes. Q. By the way, prior to June 13, 1994, had you been the first officer A. Yes. Q. Approximately how many times? A. To crime scenes? Q. Yeah. A. Twenty. Q. And how many of those 20 crime scenes were actually homicides? A. Fifteen. Q. All right. And at those 15 homicides, was it your primary A. Yes. Q. Now, going back to Officer McGowan, did you see him actually start A. Yes, I did. MR. KELLY: Steve, may I see 133, please. Bring it a little more in focus, if possible. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Officer, do you recognize that location? A. Yes. Q. Is that the front of 875 South Bundy? A. Yes, it is. Q. I was wondering if you could step down a minute; it might be easier Once again, can you indicate when you first arrived at the scene, you A. In the grassy area, over here. (Indicating.) Q. And later on, you had indicated that when you came out of the house A. It was a dirt path, not a sidewalk. Q. Well, do you see that area there? A. It's like, right in here. (Indicating.) Q. That's where you proceeded up and observed Mr. Goldman? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Thank you. You may have a seat. The way that crime-scene A. Yes. There's actually two separate areas were taped. Q. And if I could see . . . Do you recognize that photograph, Officer? A. Yes. Q. And what is that? A. That's the rear alley of 875 Bundy. Q. And the crime-scene tape -- first of all, that yellow tape is the A. Yes. Q. And that tape that is closest to us, do you know what is standing A. It's the foot of the alley of Dorothy. Q. And there's crime-scene tape down at that distance, also? A. Right. Q. Where is that located relative to 875 South Bundy? A. That's the rear of one house north of 875 South Bundy. Q. Can you just point out that tape that you see at the far end. A. (Witness complies, indicating.) Q. There's a black-and-white patrol car in that photo, also. Is that A. It's outside the tape. Q. And do you recognize the individual in that picture, also? A. That's me. Q. And where are you standing relative to the rear of 875 South Bundy? A. To the rear of the driveway. Q. After the front and rear had been secured of this crime scene with A. We searched the house while the crime-scene tape was being set up. Q. And can you describe for us the manner in which you entered and A. We went in the grassy area, stepped over the body of the female at Q. Upon entering the front of the house, what did you do then? A. We searched the lower level, back to the garage. Then we went up to Q. Can you describe exactly how you went through the first level of A. We went -- we checked the living room farthest east. Then we went Q. Did you -- in the living room, do you recall what living -- what A. The dining room, then the kitchen. Q. The kitchen where you made the phone call, by the way? A. Yes. Q. Okay. MR. KELLY: Can I see . . . Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Do you recognize that photo there, Officer? A. That's the kitchen of 875 South Bundy. Q. That's where you made the call to Sergeant Rossi? A. Right. You can't see it; there's a counter on this side you can't Q. To the left of that picture? A. Right. Q. That's where the phone was? A. Right. Yes. Q. That's where you made the call. MR. KELLY: You can take that down. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) After you went through the kitchen with Officer A. To the rear of the residence. That's a family-room area. Searched Q. And did you make any observations as you approached the garage? A. There's a couple of ice creams sitting on a bannister. Q. Did you touch that at all? A. No. Q. Did you touch anything on the first floor, as you went through the A. No. Q. By the way, as you went through the house, did you observe any A. No, I didn't. Q. And when you arrived at the garage, you went through the garage, A. Yes. Q. What, if anything, did you observe in there? A. Just a car. Nothing really out of ordinary. Q. Nothing disturbed? A. No. Q. Where did you proceed to next? A. It was a laundry room, and then I believe a maid's quarters are Q. What did you observe up there? A. Observed two children asleep in their beds. Q. Were these children in the same room or separate rooms? A. Separate. Q. And were they both asleep at that time? A. Yes. Q. Were you able to make any observations as to the approximate age of A. Just minors. Q. Young? A. Young. Q. Under 10? A. I would assume. Q. And were the doors open or closed to each of their rooms? A. Open. Q. And did you wake the children at this time? A. No. Q. After observing the children, what next? A. We continued eastbound and checked out the master bedroom, master Q. What, if any, observations did you make in the master bedroom? A. There was a TV on. I believe there was a table lamp on. The covers Q. The bed wasn't made, was it? A. No. Q. You also indicated you went into the master bathroom? A. Right. Q. What observations did you make in there? A. The tub was full of water, and there were some candles burning to Q. Do you recall how many candles were burning at this time? A. Three. Q. Did you blow them out at all? A. No. Q. Did you touch them? A. No. Q. Did you touch the water in the bathtub? A. No. Q. Did you let the water out of that bathtub? A. No. Q. Was there any sign of any struggle, ransacking, dishevelment in the A. No. Q. No indication that the crime scene extended to the second floor in A. No. Q. After going through the second floor, what, if any, action did you A. Went up on the roof -- there's a patio up there -- and checked Q. Who was your supervisor? A. Sergeant Coon. Q. And where did you meet him at? A. He was down in the grassy area. I was on the landing. I just yelled Q. And after you told him that, what, if anything, did you do next? A. I walked westbound on the walkway, to the rear gate. Q. Now, facing the front of 875 South Bundy, this walkway you're A. It's to the north of the front of the house. Q. Would that be to the right of it? A. Right. Q. And does that walkway extend all the way from the front of the A. Yes. Q. And is that a level walkway, or is it different levels? A. No, there's different levels. Q. And as you started back that walkway, did you have your flashlight A. On. Q. And at that time, did you make any observations as you started back A. I observed what appeared to be bloody footprints continue Q. And you indicated earlier that when you first approached the front A. Right. Q. Did you take a good look at that first blood drop, first of all, A. Just to verify if it was blood or not. Q. Can you describe that blood drop, as you saw it. A. It was red, appeared to be moist, about maybe the size of a dime, a Q. Was it fresh blood? A. Appeared to be fresh. MR. BLASIER: Objection. No foundation. THE COURT: Excuse me? MR. BLASIER: Excuse me. No foundation. THE COURT: "Moist" may mean fresh. Sustained Q. (BY MR. KELLY) You observed blood down by the two bodies on the A. Yes. Q. Can you describe that blood drop in relation to the other blood you A. They were very similar, looked to be the same. Q. In terms of consistency? A. Right. Q. Moisture? A. Yes. Q. Color? A. Yes. Q. Red. In your opinion, it was -- A. It was blood. MR. BLASIER: Objection. No foundation. THE COURT: That it was blood, overruled. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) And as you headed towards the back of 875 South A. Yes. Q. You had occasion to look at them at this time? A. Just so -- I passed them, so I wouldn't step in them. Q. Would you be able to describe those other drops of blood that you A. They were consistent in nature to the first one. It was red, Q. Sizewise? A. I don't -- really don't recall the size. Q. But they were consistent with the first ones you'd seen, also? A. Yes. MR. BLASIER: Objection. Leading. THE COURT: Overruled Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Did they appear to be -- did it appear to be new A. Appeared to be fresh. MR. BLASIER: Objection. No foundation. THE COURT: New blood. Sustained. Q. Moist? A. Appeared to be fresh. Q. Now, as you approached the rear of 875 South Bundy, is there A. There's a gate at the rear of the walkway. Q. And as you approached that gate, did you make any observations of A. I observed it to be blood on the inside of the rear gate. And I was Q. First of all, as you approached the gate -- MR. BLASIER: Objection. Move to strike as hearsay. THE COURT: Strike what? MR. BLASIER: Part of the answer where he talked about what his partner THE COURT: What his partner said, that's stricken. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) You had your flashlight on as you approached the A. Yes. Q. And you indicated that you observed blood on different portions of A. Yes, I did. Q. Did you shine your flashlight? A. Yes. Q. Can you tell us where on the rear gate the blood was located when A. I observed what looked like a smear on the top and a couple drops Q. And can you describe the appearance of that blood you saw in those A. Appeared to be fresh, red, consistent with the rest of the blood. Q. Moist? A. Yes. Q. And you indicated that you had a discussion at that time with your A. Yes. Q. -- who was at rear gate. As a result of that conversation, did you make any further observation A. There was blood on the grating on the outside of the gate. Q. And can you describe that blood on the grating on the outside A. Appeared to be fresh and moist, consistent with the rest of the Q. Red? A. Red. MR. KELLY: Steve, if I could see number 81, please. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Now, Officer, looking at that gate, do you recognize A. Yes, I do. Q. And what is that gate? A. That's the rear of the walkway; that's the rear alley there. Q. And that would have been as you approached that gate -- A. Right. Q. -- down the walkway. MR. KELLY: And now, Steve, if I could see number 82. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Do you recognize what appears in that photograph? A. It appears to be the bottom rung of the gate, with blood drops on Q. Do you recognize the bottom rung of the gate being the same blood A. Yes. Q. Did you observe blood in the same location in that picture that you A. Yes, I did. Q. And can you point to the blood that you observed on the gate at A. Those two spots. (Indicating.) Q. Now, looking at that photograph, does the blood appear there the A. It appears to be in the same spot. It's obviously dry. MR. KELLY: 142, Steve. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Now, do you recognize that photograph? A. That's the top of the gate, with a blood smear. Q. Is that on the inside? A. Yes. Q. And is that -- does that blood smear appear in that photograph A. Yes. Q. In the same location? A. Yes. Q. Does it physically appear the same, though? A. Yes, it does. Q. Okay. Was it red in color? A. It was red there. It was just a smear. MR. KELLY: Number 85, Steve. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Do you recognize that as being the outside of the A. Yes, it is. Q. And is that the gate that Officer Terrazas brought your attention A. Yes. Q. Okay. And after him drawing your attention to that rear gate, did A. There's blood on the grating. Q. Do you recall approximately what location that was in? A. It was towards the bottom, middle. Q. Would you indicate with your pointer approximately where it was. A. It was in this area here. (Indicating.) MR. KELLY: And number 86, please, Steve. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Do you recognize that photograph, Officer? A. Yes. Q. And what is that? A. That's blood on the grating. Q. Does that physically appear the same in that photograph as it was A. Yes, it does. Q. Even the color and the texture? A. No. It appears to be dry in this picture. Q. Was it dry when you observed it that morning? A. No; it was fresh, red, appeared to be moist. Q. Now, after making those observations -- by the way, did you shine A. Yes. Q. Did Police Officer Terrazas also put a flashlight on those areas, A. Yes, he did. Q. And did you observe those areas at the same time? A. As he directed my attention to it, yes. Q. After making those observations on the rear gate, what, if A. I told my partner that we were going to bring the kids out the Q. Did you actually walk over to look at the garage door when you A. No, I didn't. Q. Did you make any other observations in the garage door vicinity A. He just told me there was blood on the driveway. And I told him to Q. Did you actually go and look at the blood at that time? A. No. Q. Did you see any vehicles in the area? A. Not at that time. Q. After being told about the blood in the driveway by Police Officer A. I went back in the residence. I went eastbound on the walkway and Q. When you say "eastbound on the walkway," was that the same walkway A. Yes. Q. Did you take measures to avoid those footprints and drops? A. Yes, I did. Q. Did anybody accompany you back to that walkway at that time? A. No. Q. And when you went to the house, did you enter the house alone at A. Yes. Q. And who, if anybody, was in the house when you entered at that A. Officer Walsh was up by the children's bedroom. Q. Nobody else had come in through that front area of the crime scene A. No. Q. You went up with Officer Wally, back in the house, at this time? A. Yes. Q. What, if anything, did you do next, after you went up with him? A. We woke up the female and had her get dressed. Then we woke up the Q. And how long did it take you to, first of all, wake up the little A. Just a few minutes. Q. And she was asleep -- A. Yes. Q. -- when you first went in there. And then you went and woke up the little boy? A. Right. Q. And was the little girl with you when you did that? A. Yes. Q. And did she assist you in any way with the little boy? A. She helped us get him dressed. He was kind of upset. Q. And after you had them woke up and dressed, what, if anything, did A. Went down, out through the garage, and we went down the alley and Q. And who were those officers that you met up with? A. Officers Heider and Vasquez. Q. And you turned the children over to them? A. Yes. Q. And what was your understanding as to where they were taking the A. To the police station. Q. What did you do next, Officer, after you had the children taken to A. I went back to the driveway area and I saw the blood my partner was Q. First of all, the blood that you observed that Terrazas pointed you A. Yes, I did. Q. Did you make any observations, or could you describe the blood as A. It just appeared to be a fresh, red spot of blood. Q. Was it consistent with the drops you had seen earlier in the A. Yes. Q. Okay. What, if anything, did you do next, Officer? A. Then I went to the front of 875 South Bundy and I met with Sergeant Q. That was after going up and down the alleyway? A. That was before. Q. And Sergeant Coon -- did you receive any other instructions? A. Sergeant Rossi arrived, and we showed him the crime scene in the Q. First of all, who is Sergeant Rossi? A. He was a watch commander at West L.A. Q. Do you know approximately what time it was that he arrived? A. No. Q. When you say you showed him the crime scene in front, first of all, A. We went up on the grassy area, and I pointed out the female, and Q. When you say you pointed out, in what manner did you point out to A. I illuminated it with my flashlight. Q. And in illuminating these items, did you have occasion to A. Yes. Q. Did you observe any other items in the immediate vicinity at this A. No. Q. -- inside the gated area? A. No. Q. Anywhere outside the gated area? A. No. Q. Did you look with your flashlight? A. Yes. Q. Now, after showing Sergeant Rossi the front crime-scene area, what, A. We walked down to Dorothy and went to the rear alley. Then we went Q. When you say the blood, first of all, you're referring to the drop A. Yes. Q. And what, if anything, did you show him when you went to the rear A. Showed him the blood on the outside and on the inside of the rear Q. And you showed him all the drops that you pointed out earlier to A. Yes. Q. And who else was there, if anybody, with you and Sergeant Rossi at A. I believe Sergeant Coon was there, and my partner, Officer Terrazas Q. Now, after making these observations with Sergeant Rossi, what, if A. Sergeant Rossi and I went down on the walkway, approximately Q. I assume you were careful not to disturb the footprints of blood? MR. BLASIER: Objection. Leading. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Did you take measures to avoid the footsteps and A. Yes. Q. And Officer Rossi, also? A. Yes. Q. Did you then exit the rear gate? A. Yes. Q. After exiting with Sergeant Rossi, what, if anything, did do you A. Went back up to the front and just waited for the detectives. Q. And did there come a time that detectives arrived there? A. Yes. Q. And would you be able to -- first of all, when you went back out A. Yes. Q. And could you tell me which officers had arrived there at that A. Officer Ashton and his partner, Officer Gonzalez, Officer Goriossi, Q. Okay. Officers Heidler and Vasquez had been there, also? A. They had been there to pick up the children, that was it. Q. Okay. And I believe you indicated Sergeants Rossi and Coon were A. Right. Q. So it would be fair to say that at that point when you returned out A. Right. Q. And on more than one occasion, with other officers, you had A. Yes. Q. And that you had also approached the walkway north of 875 Bundy at A. Yes. MR. BLASIER: Objection. Leading. THE COURT: Counsel, let the witness testify. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) You indicated that you arrived at the front of 875 A. Right. Q. Did any detectives ever arrive? A. Yes. Q. Approximately how long after you had first arrived on that scene A. Possibly two hours. Q. And which detectives arrived at that time? A. Phillips and Fuhrman. Q. Detective Phillips and Detective Fuhrman? A. Right. Q. And what was Detective Phillips' position at that time? A. He's the lead homicide detective for West L.A. Q. And Detective Fuhrman was? A. His partner. Q. And what, if anything, did you do upon their arrival there at the A. Briefly went over what we had, and took them up to the front of the around the rear alley. Q. When you say you showed them the front of the crime scene, how did A. Used my flashlight to illuminate the body of both victims and the Q. What evidence did you illuminate? A. The envelope the glove and the hat. Then, on the north side, the A. Yes. Q. And you said you illuminated the north side. Did you approach that A. Right. Q. And approaching the north side, outside the gated area, did you A. Yes, I did. Q. Now, did you on observe any items of evidence as you came up that A. Just a pager. Q. Other than the pager, nothing else? A. No. Q. That was your second time up there with your flashlight? A. Right. Q. Now, you then proceeded to the rear of South Bundy? A. That's correct. Q. What, if anything, did you do at the rear of 875 South Bundy with A. Showed them the vehicle, the blood on the driveway, blood on the Q. When you say you showed them the blood on the driveway, what manner A. With my flashlight. Q. Was anybody else with you besides Phillips and Fuhrman? A. Sergeant Rossi. Q. And after pointing out the blood in the driveway, where did you go A. To the gate, with Detective Fuhrman. Q. And you indicated you showed them the blood on the gate at that A. Yes, I did. Q. What manner did you show him the blood on the gate at that time? A. Using my flashlight. Q. You showed all the blood spots that we had displayed earlier? A. On the gate, right. Q. And while you were at the back gate with Detective Fuhrman, what, A. They walked approximately halfway up the walkway, to, I assume, Q. And then what? A. Then they came back out. Q. And did you show the blood on the back gate to Sergeant Rossi? A. Yes, I did. Q. And was Sergeant Phillips there also, when the blood on the back A. Detective Phillips. Q. Detective Phillips? A. Initially when I showed it to Sergeant Rossi, he wasn't. When I was Q. After they returned back to the rear gate area, Rossi and Phillips, A. Detective Phillips, Detective Fuhrman, myself, entered the house Q. When you first all -- when you went to do a walk-through of the A. Yes. MR. KELLY: You want to take a break now? THE COURT: Ten-minute recess. Don't talk about the case; don't form or express any opinions. (Recess.) (Jurors resume their respective seats.) (The following proceedings were held at. The bench:) THE COURT: Not my problem. MR. PETROCELLI: We'll try to work on it during the afternoon luncheon. THE COURT: Okay. (Reviewing notes.) (The following proceedings were held in open court in the presence of MR. KELLY: Can I proceed, Your Honor? THE COURT: (Nods in the affirmative.) Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Officer, before the break you had indicated that you A. Right. Q. And did anybody else accompany you at that time? A. No. Q. And what did you do upon entering the premise? A. We did a quick walk through of the house and we went out on the Q. When you arrived the at the front landing what, if anything, did A. I illuminated the area of the bodies with my flash light, showed Q. Other than the foot steps, what other evidence did you illuminate A. The drop of blood before the front door and the drop of blood Q. Did you illuminate the front area also where the bodies were? A. Yes. Q. And did you illuminate any of the evidence in that area? A. Yes, I did. Q. And what evidence was that? A. The two bodies, the envelope, the glove and the hat. Q. Did you observe any other items at this time in the vicinity? A. No. Q. After that, what happened? What did you do next, if anything? A. I -- we noted that Detective Phillips and Detective Fuhrman both, Detective Spangler had arrived. We all three Q. Through the front door? A. Right. Detective Fuhrman and I stayed in the house. Detective Q. You say you and Detective Fuhrman stayed in the house. What area of A. In the kitchen. Q. Were the lights on in the kitchen at this time? A. Yes. Q. By the way, what was Detective Fuhrman wearing that night when you A. He had a light colored, like a white shirt and like khaki pants. Q. Did he have any jacket on? A. No. Q. Sports coat? A. No. Q. What happened next when you were in the kitchen with Detective A. We just stayed in there until Detective Phillips and Lieutenant Q. And what did you do next after you were out there with your A. Just maintained the perimeter security. Q. And did anybody else arrive out back at any particular time while A. Later I saw a photographer and then Vannatter arrived later. Q. Let's take them one at a time. First of all, when the photographer A. Yes, he worked S.I.D. Q. What does S.I.D. stand for? A. Scientific investigation division. Q. And what, if anything, did you say to him when you arrived? A. I pointed out evidence, told him not to step in it or step on it. Q. And what evidence did you point out to him? A. The blood drop on the driveway. I believe there was some change and Q. Okay. Other than that evidence, did you point anything else out to A. No. I told him about the ice cream in the house, just to be Q. Other than that, anything else? A. No. Q. Was it your duty to work with the photographer or point out A. No, I just did it so he wouldn't disturb any evidence. Q. Now, after that, you indicated that this was a time that Detectives A. Right. Q. And first of all, what was their position in law enforcement at A. They're in robbery homicide. I was told they were going to take Q. And where were you when they first arrived? A. In the rear alley. Q. Did you have any conversation with them at this time? A. No. Q. Okay. Did you point anything out to them at this time? A. No. Q. Was anybody accompanying them? Was anybody with the two of them at A. I believe Detective Phillips. Q. And did there ever come a time, in the rear, that you had a A. I can't remember if it was Lange or Vannatter. I think it was Lange Q. In terms of your observations that morning? A. Right. Q. And did you write out the narrative of your observations? A. Yes. Q. And in writing that out, is that something you would do in the A. Right. Q. Is that part of your official police duties? A. Yes. Q. And when you wrote them out that morning, was it more or less A. Yes. MR. KELLY: Your Honor, at this time, I'd like to, first of all, ask (Witness reviews document.) THE WITNESS: Yes, I do. MR. KELLY: This is exhibit number 883. MR. BLASIER: May I look at that? THE WITNESS: 833. MR. KELLY: 833, I'm sorry. (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as Defendant's Exhibit No. 833.) MR. KELLY: Any objection? MR. BLASIER: No. MR. KELLY: Okay. Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Are those the notes you made that morning for A. Yes. MR. KELLY: It's my understanding that defense has stipulated as to MR. BLASIER: That's correct. (The instrument herein described was. received in evidence as Defendant's Exhibit No. 833.) Q. (BY MR. KELLY) In those notes, Officer, is it correct you put all A. Just basically what we did when we arrived and anything that was Q. Okay. And you'd included the blood on the back gate; is that A. Yes. Q. Now, did there come a time that you returned to the property of 875 A. Yes. Q. And do you recall approximately what time that was? A. It was possibly 5:30, 5:20. Q. And who, if anybody, did you meet with or confirm with at this A. Detective Phillips and Fuhrman. Q. Okay. Anybody else? A. No. Q. And after you met with them, what, if anything, happened next? A. Detective Phillips gave me a phone and asked me for directions to Q. And did they then leave 875 south Bundy? A. I would assume. Q. Okay. Did you even see them leave? A. No. Q. What did you do after you were given that cellular phone? A. Put it in my car and stood around the front of the location? Q. And where was your car located at this time. A. Directly in front of the walkway. Directly in front of 875 south Q. You had moved your black and white from the rear of 875 to the A. Right. Q. Of 875. Now, after Detective Phillips and Fuhrman left at 5:30, did A. Little later. Possibly an hour later. Q. Okay. And under what circumstances did you happen to see them? A. I saw Detective Fuhrman and the photographer approaching the crime Q. Do you recall what evidence Detective Fuhrman was pointing at? A. The believe and the hat. Q. Okay. If I could see number 92, Steve. Now, do you recognize that A. Yes. Q. Okay. Is that the photograph you just referenced Detective Fuhrman A. Yes, it is. Q. And you actually observed the photographer take that photograph at A. Yes, I did. Q. Okay. And you can remove that now, sir. And can you just flip number 40 up there? (Steve displays 40.) Is that a close up of the same photograph you observed him taking, A. Yes. Q. Is that the glove and the hat as they appear that morning when you A. Yes. Q. And Steve, could you put the number 92 back up again? (Steve complies.) Q. Are you able to see what type of shoes Detective Fuhrman has on in A. They appear to be dress shoes. I don't know. Q. Don't know whether they're loafers or -- A. No. Q. You can remove that photo. (Steve complies.) Did there come a time that you were relieved of your post of 875 south A. Yes. Q. Approximately what time was that? A. 7:15. Q. And how long prior to you being relieved of your post did you A. Possibly 40 minutes, 45 minutes. Q. So was it starting to get light out at that time? A. Yeah, it was dawn. Q. And one of the one other things: Did you have any contact with A. Yes, I did. Q. And what was that? A. I saw him on the east side of the street talking to some other Q. Was that before or after you observed those photographs being A. It was just after. Q. And when you were relieved at 7:15 that morning, was that your last A. Yes. MR. KELLY: I have no further questions. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BLASIER: Q. Officer Riske, good morning? A. Good morning. Q. My name is Bob Blasier and I represent Mr. Simpson. As I understand your testimony, one of your responsibilities was to A. That's correct. Q. Now, when you were at the academy, did you receive any training in A. Not that I know. Q. In fact, they just glossed over that topic at academy, didn't they? A. That's correct. Q. And prior to the time that you were at this particular scene, had A. No. Q. Did you have any level of knowledge at all as to the quantities of A. No. Q. Did you have any training at all in the area of how evidence might MR. KELLY: Objection. Relevance. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) What is the crime scene log.. A. Crime scene log is just a log of people's names and the times they arrived. Q. And I'm sorry? A. And leave. Q. And that's a very important document to record who's at the crime A. Yes. Q. Is that standard procedure at a homicide scene particularly? A. Particularly, yes. We use them a lot. Q. And who's responsibility is it to ensure that the log is accurate? A. The person that does it. Q. And when an officer arrived at the scene, whose responsibility is A. The officer. Q. The officer who arrives at the scene? A. The keeper of the log should chase him down if he doesn't check in Q. And who is the officer that kept the log at this crime scene? A. I believe it was Officer Cummings. Q. Do you recall when that log was started? A. No, I don't. Q. Let me show you exhibit 846. May I have a stipulation? MR. KELLY: Yeah. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) The Bundy crime scene log, why don't you take a A. Looks like a crime scene. I never saw the log until the trial. Q. 829. MR. PETROCELLI: 829. MR. BLASIER: 829. THE COURT: Excuse me. MR. BLASIER: The exhibit is 829. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) What time did you arrive at Bundy? A. 12:13. Q. Now, you were in uniform on June 13, , were you not? A. Yes, I was. Q. And what color is that uniform? A. It's actually a dark blue. It looks like -- Q. Blue back. What type of material is the uniform made of? A. Wool. Q. Are all the officers, the uniform officers wearing the same color? A. Same color, yes. Q. Uniform. Hundred percent wool? A. You can buy them polyester but I don't do it. Q. Now, when the witness's stopped you and described that there was a A. No. Q. Where were you standing when you were told that? A. On the east curb in front of 874 south Bundy. Q. Now the east curb would be which side of the street? A. The east side. Q. Which side in relation to where the bodies were found? A. The opposite side. Q. And where did you go from there? A. Over to the gas area 875. Q. How did you -- did you cross the sidewalk at that time? A. I crossed the street. Q. And did you cross the sidewalk as well? A. No. Q. How did you get to the grassy area without crossing the sidewalk? A. We went in the direction of the grassy area. We didn't go on the Q. Okay. So where did you stop? A. On the strip of the grass before the sidewalk, before -- Q. Between the sidewalk and the street? A. Right. Q. And it was -- you were able to see Nicole Brown Simpson's body from A. Not at first, no. Q. Well, at some point, your were able to see the body from that A. Right. Q. And there was actually light coming from the inside of the A. There was a little bit of light coming out of the door but the Q. The interior lights of the condominium were off? A. They were down. Q. Were they down or were they off? A. They were down. Q. How do you know that they were down as opposed to on at full A. I don't. Q. At what point did you become aware that you could see bodies from A. After we had been directed by the witnesses. Q. And so you look in that direction at that time and you could see A. Using my flashlight, yes. Q. Can you see it without your flashlight? MR. KELLY: Objection. Hypothetical. He didn't have the opportunity to. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Did you look without your flashlight at all? A. No, I didn't. Q. Let me show you exhibit 1439. I apologize for the picture. Does this appear to be a picture of a view that you had from the (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as A. Yes. Q. Do you know when that picture was taken? A. No. Q. Now, describe the lighting along the walkway. MR. KELLY: Objection. At what time? THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) In the morning, when you saw the body for the A. It was dark. Q. Was there a Malibu light on along the walkway? A. No. Q. Now, the lighting coming from the front door -- You can take that A. The second time I approached her. Q. Now, the first time you approached, did you cross the sidewalk, the A. I don't believe so, no. Q. How did you get to the grassy area without crossing the sidewalk? MR. KELLY: Objection, argumentative. THE COURT: It's a question. Overruled. THE WITNESS: I don't understand the question. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) At some point you got to the grassy area between A. Right. Q. Correct. How did you get there without crossing over the sidewalk? A. I crossed the sidewalk. Q. When you crossed the sidewalk, did you see anything unusual? A. Bloody paw prints. Q. Now, you saw bloody paw prints in what direction were they going? A. South. Q. Did you follow those paw prints at any time to see how far south A. Yes. Q. How far south did they go? A. Just to the corner of Dorothy and Bundy. Q. Did they stop there? A. Yes. Q. Now, you walked around from the front of the condominium and around A. Right. Q. And the paw prints, from your observation, never went up Dorothy. A. As far as I recall, yes. Q. Was there ever a canine unit called out to determine whether a path A. No. MR. KELLY: Objection, Your Honor. THE COURT: Excuse me. MR. KELLY: Relevant. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) When you got there, did you make any effort when MR. KELLY: Objection. Relevance. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Now, when you made your first trip up the area of A. No. Q. How did you walk? A. Through the foliage to the left of the walkway. Q. How far to the left of the walkway? A. Just to the left of the walkway. Q. Okay. So you walked in the closest area to the walkway without A. Right. Q. Did you check at all for any footprints along that dirty area A. No. Q. How did you check? A. With my flashlight. Q. What was the ground area like? A. It was just loamy soil covered with plants. Q. Did you notice any cars parked either along Bundy or Dorothy? A. No. Q. Did you ever do a check to see what cars were parked in the A. Me personally, no. Q. Now, when you first saw the blood on the walkway, where were you A. On a grass between the street and the sidewalk. MR. BLASIER: I'd like you to look at -- what number is this? MR. P. BAKER: 32. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) I'd like you to take a look at exhibit No. 32. Now, when you first observed blood on the walkway, how far down the A. About the mid point. Q. Okay. Can you tell me, I'm going to point to what I think is the A. It was about there. Q. Okay. There -- so there was no blood at that point, from that point A. Just paw prints. Q. What time was that? A. Possibly 12:15. Q. It was shortly after you arrived? A. Right. Q. After you observed the blood halfway down the walkway, what did you A. Requested an ambulance and a back up and additional units. Q. And how did you do that? A. From my radio. Q. And do you recall what you said on your radio? A. No. Q. What did you do from there? A. Just approached the female through the bushes to get a better look Q. I'm sorry? A. Observed the male laying against the fence. Q. What did you do then? A. I told my partner to go grab on to the witnesses so they didn't Q. Now, where was Officer Terrazas? He was your partner, correct? A. Yeah. Q. Where was he when you were walking up over the bushes and looking A. He was in the grassy area to the left of the bushes. Q. So it was at this point that you told him to go talk to the A. The female and the male. Q. What did you do next? A. The second time we approached, we stepped across her body and went Q. And as you went toward the house, you went up on the landing, A. Right. Q. And you went inside the house at that point? A. Right. Q. Now, before you went inside the house, you observed that the door A. Right. Q. And what kind of lighting was there on the inside? Where were the A. I believe the lights in the kitchen were on. Q. How about the lights in the front area, in the living room area? A. Not that I recall, no. Q. Now the living room area was the first area that you go into when A. Right. Q. -- Go in the front door, correct? Now, when you went in the house, had you conducted any kind of MR. KELLY: Objection. Relevance. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) When you walked into the house, you looked for A. Looked for bloody -- for the prints or blood drops. Q. Did you look for anything else? A. No. Q. And when you went into the house, you then made a phone call as A. Right. Q. And the phone was back in the kitchen, wasn't it? A. It was right in the kitchen, dining room. Q. Did you pick up the phone with your hand? A. No. Yes. Q. You have any blood on your hand? A. No. Q. Did you give any thoughts to the idea that there might be A. Sure. Q. Did you make any effort to preserve fingerprints on the phone? A. No. Q. Now, from that telephone, the first call you made was to? A. The only call I made. Q. The only call you made was to the watch commander, right? A. Right. Q. And who was that? A. Sergeant Rossi. Q. Tell me exactly what you told him? A. Told him we had a double homicide on Bundy and it was my belief Q. So you told the watch commander in your first telephone call that A. Right. Q. What did you do from there? A. We exited the house. My partner went and grabbed onto the male and Q. When you went around to the north side, again, you're walking out A. Right. Q. Correct. And you're walking around to the house that's to the north A. That's correct. Q. And were you by yourself at that time? A. Yes. Q. Now you walk around and from what location did you observe Mr. A. From outside the fence and north residence. Q. And you had your flashlight? A. Yes, I did. Q. Can you tell me what you did? A. Illuminated the area looking for any evidence and I approached Mr. Q. How did you touch his eyeball? A. With my finger. Q. What else did you do? A. Just after I determined he was dead, I left the area. Q. Did you use your flashlight to look in his pupils? A. Yes, I did. Q. Let me show you exhibit 38. It's already been introduced. Is that a A. Yes. Q. -- At the time you first observed him? A. Yes, it is. Q. Now, is it your testimony then you were able to shine a light in A. That's correct. That's the metal fence actually, it's not a gate. Q. Okay. The metal gate in the background? A. That's a metal fence in the background. Q. I'm sorry, metal back -- Let me show you this photo on the Elmo, if MR. MEDVENE: Mr. Baker, can I get the number, please. MR. BLASIER: 38. Same one. MR. KELLY: Same pictures. MR. BLASIER: Same picture. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Is it your testimony that that picture accurately A. Yes. Q. Now how did you reach through the fence? A. Just reached between the bars. Q. After you did that, what did you do next? A. I went back out to the street with my partner. Q. Where did you go from there? A. Additional units showed up and my Sergeant showed up and we Q. And from there you went where? A. Officer Wally and I entered the house and served it. Q. Now, up to this point, you had not walked along the north walkway A. Correct. Q. And after you went into the back of the house, at what point did A. I don't understand the question. MR. KELLY: Objection. MR. BLASIER: You went into the back of the house and where did you go? MR. KELLY: Objection. Misstates his testimony. THE COURT: It's a question. THE WITNESS: I didn't enter the back of the house. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) You entered the front of house with Officer Wally, A. (Nods in the affirmative.) Q. And at that point, did you notice anybody's shoe prints? A. Extending past the residence, not inside the house, no. Q. Okay. But did you notice any in the area of the bodies? A. Yes. Q. Can you describe the positions of those shoe prints? A. There was a -- like a heel print on a walkway in front of her body. towards the rear. MR. BLASIER: Stipulate to the admission of 87? MR. KELLY: Yeah. (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as Defendant's Exhibit No. 87.) (The instrument herein described was received in evidence as Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) I'm going to have you look at exhibit 87. That Okay. Does that appear to be diagram of an overhead area of where the A. Yes. Q. And can you show us with a pointer where the front door is in that A. No. Q. You can't? Now, did you observe any blood drops in the area of the A. I see one before the front door but I'm not going to testify to Q. But did you see any blood drops to the left of any bloody shoe A. Leaving the bodies, between the bodies and the front door, yes. Q. How many? A. One. Q. Where was that located? A. It was just prior to the front door. Q. And how far was the front door from the bodies? A. 30 feet, 40 feet. Q. So within -- from the bodies up to the front door, there were no A. Correct. Q. Now, the one by the front door -- well, let me ask you about in the A. I didn't find any in the driveway. Q. How many did you see in the driveway? A. One. Q. And where was that in relation to the jeep? A. I believe it was north of the jeep. Q. Was that the left of any bloody shoe prints? A. The bloody shoe prints didn't extend that far back. Q. That's a no? A. Correct. Q. How many drops did you see the entire time that you would describe A. I don't know. I didn't count them. Q. More than three? A. I don't know what the total is. I didn't count them. Q. More than two? A. More than one. I didn't know. I didn't count them. Q. When you observed the ice cream, did you make any effort to look at A. No. MR. KELLY: Objection. Relevance. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Did you make any effort to preserve the ice cream? A. No. MR. KELLY: Objection. THE COURT: Sustained. What's the relevance? Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) One of your jobs on a crime scene is to preserve MR. KELLY: Objection. THE COURT: Overruled? THE WITNESS: It's more preservance, nothing disturbed by other people. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Is one of your goals not to keep the crime scene A. Yes. Q. Did you make any effort to do that with the ice cream? A. No. MR. KELLY: Objection. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Now, when you went inside the condominium, the A. Right. Q. Did you make any determination whether that was a CD or whether it A. No. Q. Did you see any candles lit in the living room? A. I believe there were. I don't recall. Q. And you saw candles lit in the master bathroom? A. Master bathroom. Q. How many candles were there and where were they situated? A. In the bathroom. Q. Um-hum? A. There was three and they were to the west of the bath tub on a -- Q. And the bath tub was filled with water? A. Correct. Q. Did you make any determination whether the water was hot? A. No. Q. When was the first time that you walked out the north alleyway or A. When I went to tell my partner that we were bringing the children Q. And which direction did you walk it from? A. From the east to the west. Q. So that would be from the front to the back? A. Right. Q. And who did you walk that with? A. Me. Q. Can you describe what's on either side of that walkway as you walk A. The house was on one side and there was a fence on the other. Q. Is there any dirt area between the walkway and the wall on the A. I don't recall. I don't believe so. I don't recall. Q. Now, there was a lot of foliage in the area of where the bodies A. In the front, yes. I don't recall where it is. Q. Now, the back gate, when you got there, the back gate was already A. It was closed. Q. Was it latched? A. I don't believe so. Q. You were able to open it with your flashlight, correct? A. Pushed it open with my flashlight, Q. And after you pushed it open, what did the gate do? A. Stayed open. Q. So the gate didn't automatically swing shut and latch? A. No. Q. Did you make any determination whether the latch on the gate was A. No. Q. Now, when the children were taken out, you asked Sydney Simpson a A. I don't recall. Q. You asked her if her dad was OJ Simpson, didn't you? MR. KELLY: Objection. Hearsay. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. KELLY: Ask the question be stricken. THE COURT: Stricken. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Did you make any effort to find out who the A. I think I asked her who her dad was and she told me OJ Simpson. I MR. KELLY: Objection. Ask the answer be stricken. THE COURT: Stricken, not relevant. MR. BAKER: I object. Goes to state of mind of this witness. THE COURT: That was my ruling on the objection. If you want to object Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Now, the bedrooms, where those bedroom was A. I don't remember if this was a window in there or not. Q. Now, the blood on the back gate, did you make any kind of diagram A. No. Q. And I believe you testified on direct that the drops and the blood A. They appeared to be fresh, yes. Q. They appeared to be moist? A. (Nods in the affirmative.) THE COURT: He said they appeared to be fresh. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Well, you said on direct that they were moist, A. Yes. Q. Now, did they keep the same appearance from the time you first saw A. As far as I recall, yes. MR. BLASIER: Can I have 81? Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Let me show you exhibit that we've introduced. Now, you see the tags down on the bottom of the gate? A. Yes, I do. Q. Those tags weren't there on the 13, were they? A. Not while I was there, no. Q. This picture wasn't taken on the 13th, was it? A. I don't know. MR. BLASIER: Could we look at 82, please? Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Looking at exhibit number 82, when you observed the blood, those cards weren't there, A. No. Q. When the photographer came, what time was that? A. I don't know. Q. You have any recollection when the photographer got there in A. No. He got there before. Q. Before the detectives? A. (Nods in the affirmative.) Before Detective Vannatter and Lange. Q. Now, you showed the photographer the blood in the back driveway, A. Right. Q. What else did you show him? A. The change. Q. The change? A. I told him about the ice cream. Q. You see a plastic cart in the driveway in the back? A. No. Q. You never told the photographer about anything on the back gate, A. No, I didn't. Q. Now, give me your best estimate of when Detective Fuhrman and A. Probably 2:00, 2:15. Q. And where did you first see them? A. You saw them parking their cars on the southeast corner of Bundy Q. And where are you -- were you standing? A. I was standing just to the south of 875 in the street. Q. Where did Detective Fuhrman and Phillips go first? A. I believe they came out and talked to my watch commander. Q. I'm sorry, talked to? A. My commander, watch commander Sergeant Rossi. Q. What did they do next? A. I showed them the front of the location. Q. And about what time was that? A. Just shortly five, ten minutes after they arrived. Q. What's your best estimate? A. 2:20 maybe. Q. Now, Your Honor, we have a copy of a chart that's from a different MR. KELLY: Could we see it, please? MR. BLASIER: 2077 (sic). (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as Defendant's Exhibit No. 2097.) Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) 2097. Let me write on it. And I better write Okay. Could we put this on the Elmo, please. Can you see that diagram A. Not really, no. Q. Let me give you a copy of it. Could you take a look at the copy in A. Yes. Q. Now, now your testimony is that Detective Fuhrman and Detective A. Right. Q. Could we write a 2:20? (Steve complies.) Again, you showed them the same path that you took up the grass and A. Yeah. Q. Up the grass area? A. Went up the grass area and went up the north side by Mr. Goldman's Q. Let's put an F1. Yeah. Draw a line down. F1 at 2:20 AM. And A. Five or ten minutes. Q. And where did Detective Phillips and Fuhrman go from there? A. We walked down Bundy, westbound on Dorothy to the rear of the -- up Q. So this would be all the way around the block, in essence, to the A. I wouldn't say around the block, no. Q. Well? A. Down to Dorothy, mid block up the alley. Q. Okay. Then when you got to the alley, what did Detective Fuhrman A. He walked with me and Detective Phillips to the rear driveway, Q. Now, when you went to the rear gate, you went to the rear gate with A. Detective Fuhrman, Detective Phillips and Detective Ross. Q. What time was that? A. It was probably 2:35 or so. Q. Okay. A. 2:40. Q. So you're back in the driveway area? MR. KELLY: Your Honor, I'm going to object to any times being placed THE COURT: It's his exhibit. Overruled. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Let's draw an F2 there. And I'm sorry, the time A. 2:40, 2:35. Q. 2:35 to 2:40. And what happened after that? A. Detective Fuhrman and I stopped at the rear gate and Detective Q. So Detective Fuhrman did not walk in the back walkway, the north A. No. Q. And did you and Detective Fuhrman wait for Phillips and Rossi to A. Yes. Q. And then where did you go from there? A. Detective Phillips, Fuhrman and I entered the house through the Q. And is that when you -- when you showed him the bottom floor? A. Where? Right. Q. Did you show him upstairs -- Detective Fuhrman upstairs at that A. Yes, the whole condo. Q. And at this point you went out on the front landing? A. Right. Q. About what time was that? To your -- for your best approximation? A. Maybe five to 3:00 Q. About 2:55? A. It's only a guess, yes. Q. And so let's put an F3 by the front landing. Now, in this diagram, where I'm pointing, it's actually the front A. It's actually a little south of your finger. Q. Okay. The front door is not right at the front of the condominium, A. No. Q. The living room area extends out more toward the seat than the A. Right. Q. So the landing area where you were was how far outside the front A. It's probably 30 feet to the steps. Q. Okay. You went just to the top of the steps? A. Right. Q. Okay. And after you went to the top of the steps, where did you and A. Detective Fuhrman, Detective Phillips and I stood right there on the landing. Q. Okay. And for how long? A. Maybe five minutes or so. Until we were advised that Detective Q. Who advised you of that? A. I believe Sergeant Coon. Q. And what did you do then? A. We all went back through the front door. Detective Phillips and I Q. So when you and Detective Fuhrman were in the kitchen, what time we A. Right around 3:00, I don't know. Q. So let's put an F4 in the -- kitchen area is back in this area of (Indicating to exhibit.) A. I don't know. Q. Well it's to the -- A. It's to the rear, but -- Q. -- To the rear? A. On this diagram I wouldn't pick it out. Q. But there's the living room and then I walk up toward the back of A. It's a living room, dining room and then a kitchen. Q. Okay. So you're in the kitchen. Let's put an F4. Detective Fuhrman. A. Right around 3:00 I would guess. Q. And how long did you stay in the kitchen with Detective Fuhrman? A. A couple minutes. Until the Detective Phillips and Lieutenant Q. And when Phillips and Spangler came back, which direction did they A. Through the garage. Q. What happened then? A. I leave the house. Q. What did Detective Fuhrman do? A. He stayed with Phillips and Spangler. Q. Now, when you left the house, when did you next see Detective A. I really don't know, half hour. Q. Did you see what Detective Fuhrman was doing during that half hour? A. No. Q. Did you ever see Detective Fuhrman walking down the north alleyway A. No. Q. And Detective Fuhrman, this entire time, he never wore a coat, A. I don't know. Q. Well, you testified on direct that he was wearing slacks and a A. Right. Q. Correct. But he did not have a coat on, did he? A. No. Q. Now, after that half hour, where did you first see Detective A. In the rear driveway. Q. And what happened at that time? A. I believe he just told me that RHD was on their way to take over. Q. About what time is that? A. I really don't know. Q. How long after you had been in the kitchen? You said that you A. I really didn't know, sir. Q. So let's put an F5 back in the driveway. And it's at least, if MR. KELLY: Objection. THE WITNESS: I couldn't say what time it is. THE COURT: Excuse me? MR. KELLY: Misstates his testimony. Argumentative. He said he doesn't THE COURT: Sustained. Save it for argument. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Now, it was at that point that Detective Fuhrman A. I believe it was just -- Detective Fuhrman told me that. Q. What happened then? A. I believe he went back inside. I'm not sure. Q. Detective Fuhrman? A. Right. Q. And how long did he stay in inside, do you know? A. I don't know. Q. Did he go in there with anybody else? A. Phillips and Spangler were already in there. Q. Well, you said from the back driveway you saw Detective Fuhrman go A. No, they were in the residence. Q. Okay. So when you got the information from Fuhrman that robbery A. He came out of the garage, approached me and my partner and went Q. Okay. And how long did he stay inside? A. I don't know. Q. When did you next see him? A. I really don't know. Q. Did you see him again at all? A. No, I saw him again but I don't know what the time was. Q. Did you see the photographer taking any pictures prior to the time A. No. Q. When did you first notice the photographer taking pictures? A. When I was in the rear alley. Q. On which visit? A. It was after Lieutenant Spangler arrived and I left the house. Q. Okay. Before you were told about robbery homicide or after? A. I really don't know. Q. And where was he taking pictures? A. He took a shot in the alley from Dorothy and then he was just Q. It was still dark then. Still the middle of the night? A. Right. Q. Now at some point, Detective Fuhrman and Detective Phillips leave A. Right. Q. That before or after Vannatter and Lange arrived? A. It was after. Q. And, in fact, when Detective Fuhrman and Detective Phillips left, A. I don't know. I didn't see them leave. Q. After Fuhrman and Phillips left, did you see any Detectives at the A. I believe there was two detectives from west L.A. I think one of Q. Let me -- I'm sorry? A. They were just standing around in the street. Q. Let me ask you about Detective Roberts, what time did he arrive? A. I don't know. Q. When did you first see him? A. When I pulled my car around to the front, around. :00, 5:30, 5:25 Q. So this is after Fuhrman and Phillips leave, correct? A. No they approach me and my car was already in the front when they Q. And that was about 5:00. I'm sorry. What would you say the time A. It was around 5:30, 5:25. Q. Okay. And who was there? Detective Roberts was, Detective Fuhrman A. I remember seeing Roberts. Seems like he was there after they asked Q. Okay. And who all asked you directions? A. I think Phillips asked me directions. Q. Okay. And this was yours in the front area of Bundy? A. Right. Q. On the sidewalk? On the street? Where? A. On the street. Q. So back in the front area, we have Roberts and Phillips at about A. No. Q. I'm sorry what did you say? A. I said I parked my car out there between :25 and 5:30. Q. Okay. That's when you saw them and were asked for directions? A. No. Q. When? A. They asked for directions about 5:30. I saw Roberts after that Q. All right. So at 5:30 and you see Roberts after that? A. Right. Q. And you had not seen Roberts up to that time, correct? A. No. Q. That's correct? A. That's correct. Q. Do you remember how Detective Roberts got there? Did you ever see a A. No. Q. -- That he came in? Now, when you -- when you were out front, as you described, with A. 5:25. Q. 5:25, I'm sorry. That was before the picture of Fuhrman pointing at A. That's correct. Q. And what time was the picture of Fuhrman pointing at the glove A. Between 6:30 and 6:45, maybe. Q. And where were you when you saw that? A. Standing on the street directly in front of the residence. Q. And where was, well -- we know where Fuhrman was standing in the A. Right. Q. Okay. Let's write down the Roberts and Phillips in the front area? A. I would put Roberts more towards the Bundy and Dorothy corner. Q. But in the area of the front? A. Pardon me? Q. In the area of the front, when you were asked for directions, A. He was down at Dorothy and Bundy. Q. So let's put Roberts and Phillips. MR. KELLY: Judge, I'd object. He's not even reflecting the testimony THE COURT: I think -- MR. KELLY: -- The indications he's making on the diagram -- THE COURT: I don't think -- MR. BLASIER: -- I don't want to misstate anything you've said. THE COURT: That's not very accurate. MR. BLASIER: Okay. Tell me again what time Roberts -- THE COURT: I think the complaint that you're drawing on it, on a MR. BLASIER: Okay. Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Now, at about 6:30, :35 is when the pointing A. Right. Q. The picture of Fuhrman pointing at the glove, right? A. Right. Q. Who else was in that general area when that picture was taken, if A. A photographer. Q. Anyone else? A. No. MR. BLASIER: May I have a minute, Your Honor? Q. (BY MR. BLASIER) Now at the time that picture was taken with Mark A. No. Q. How dark was it? A. It was like dawn, just becoming dawn. Just started to get light. Q. Did you still need to use flashlights? A. Kind of subjective. I mean, to stand on the street to look for Q. You could see clearly, Detective Fuhrman, from your advantage point A. Um-hum. Q. You didn't need a flashlight for that? A. No. Q. Now, when did officer Spangler arrive? A. Lieutenant Spangler. Q. Lieutenant Spangler? A. Prior. Possibly 3 o'clock when we went back in the house. Q. And where were you when you first saw Lieutenant Spangler? A. In the kitchen with Detective Fuhrman. Q. And how did -- where was he when you saw him? A. Coming in the house with Detective Phillips. Q. Coming in the front of the house or the back? A. The back. Q. The back. When the picture of Detective Fuhrman pointing at the A. Maybe to the north west or the north south sidewalk, where they Q. Where the sidewalk in front of that more or less the street that A. Right. Q. Thank you. That's all I have. MR. KELLY: Just a couple questions, Your Honor reflex. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. KELLY: Q. Officer, the diagram that was up there, before Mr. Blasier entered, A. Um-hum. Q. -- Were you keeping a log of your own activities that night? A. No. Q. Constantly checking your watch? The times are written up there. A. Yes. Q. Even though you know whether they were accurate approximations or A. No. Q. Are they just guesses? MR. BLASIER: Objection. Leading. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. KELLY: I have no further questions. THE COURT: No further -- MR. BLASIER: No further questions. THE COURT: Thank you. You're excused. THE WITNESS: Thank you very much. MR. MEDVENE: Officer Terrazas, Your Honor. MIGUEL TERRAZAS, called as a witness on behalf of Plaintiff Goldman, THE CLERK: You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in THE WITNESS: I do. THE CLERK: And would you please state and spell your name for the THE WITNESS: First name Miguel, M-I-G-U-E-L; last name Terrazas spelt MR. MEDVENE: In the court, please, there are three exhibits not Numbers 89, close up of the glove and hat, taken June 13 of '94. (The instruments herein described were received in evidence as DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MEDVENE: Q. What is your occupation, sir? A. Currently working for Los Angeles police department, assigned to Q. What is Valley Bureau Crash? A. I worked for valley bureau. I work any one of the valley divisions Q. How long have you been with the LAPD? A. For approximately three and a half years. Q. And what did you do prior to that? A. I was in U.S. air force. Q. To approximately how long? A. Approximately five and a half years. Q. What was your assignment with the Los Angeles police department A. I was assigned to the west L.A. Division uniform patrol. Q. And your duties? A. I was to respond to any kind of radio calls and suppress any kind Q. Did you have occasion in the early morning hours of June 13 to go A. Yes, I did. Q. Alone or with someone? A. With my partner. Q. Who was your partner? A. Officer Riske. Q. Approximately what time did you arrive? A. Approximately 0015 hours, should be about :15 in the morning. Q. Can you put up No. 32, please? (Steve complies). Could you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury whether the A. Yes. Q. Would you place on the board, please, exhibit 38? (Steve complies). What is that, sir? A. It's an envelope I saw. Q. And what else did you see? You can stand up and look at the photo? A. Adjacent to the envelope was the glove and the knit cap. Q. In the photo also a body? A. Yes, sir. There was a body of a white male early 20s to mid 20s. Q. Could you put up on the board exhibit 89, please? (Steve complies.) Can you take a look at 89 and tell me what that is? A. It's the glove and a knit cap. Q. And when did you first see those? A. I first saw them June 13, 1993 (sic) as I walked with my partner to Q. Is that an accurate reproduction of how they appeared when you A. Yes. Q. You mentioned seeing the female victim, the male victim, a single A. On two occasions. Q. And could you describe what you used, if anything, as a source of A. I used my flashlight which would be a streamline flashlight. Q. Can you describe how bright the light is? A. About room light maybe bright her. Q. And at the time you saw the items and the victims, was there just A. Be my flashlight and my partner's flashlight. Q. Now, you said on two separate occasions you saw what you indicated. A. I was at the -- I believe it was the base of the stairwell, sir, on Q. All right. A. I think the top of the stairwell. Q. Did you see more than one glove? A. No, I only saw one. Q. Now, after viewing the evidence that you described, on the two A. I then walked out of the walkway onto the grassy area where I met Q. And did you have a conversation with Sergeant Coon? A. Yes, I did. Q. And did he give you any direction? A. Yes. He told me to walk to the rear of south Bundy and guard that Q. And did you do that? A. Yes, I did. Q. And could you describe how you made your way from the front of 875 A. I walked southbound Bundy to Dorothy, walked westbound on Dorothy Q. And on the way, did you use any source of illumination? A. Yes. As I reached the alleyway, I turned on my flashlight. Q. And for how long did you have on your flashlight? A. Maybe 20 minutes. Q. And where did you shine your flashlight? A. On the ground. Q. And did you observe any second glove? A. No, sir. Q. Did you make your way to the rear of 875 south Bundy? A. Yes, sir. Q. When you arrived at the rear, did you make any observation? A. Yes, I did. Q. What did you see? A. I saw a black Jeep Cherokee parked in the rear of 875 south Bundy. Q. We're going to place on the board, Officer Terrazas, what's been (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as A. Yes, I have. Q. At the time you saw that scene, was the man in the picture? A. No, sir. Q. Were the two markers in the pictures? A. No. Q. Could you tell us what, other than what the picture generally A. It depicts it very well. Q. If you could point to the marker that's presently in the middle, A. In that general area was where I saw the change and the pendant. Q. And how about to the right of that, looking at it straight ahead? A. In that area was where I saw a drop of blood. Q. Can you put on the board exhibit 76, please? (Steve complies.) We have exhibit 76. And was the 117 marker there when you saw this A. No, the marker was not there. Q. And what is the object next to it? A. It appears to be of blood. Q. And could you describe whether or not that was a drop of blood that A. It appears to be the same drop of bloody observed on that night. Q. Now, the drop of blood, as you observed it that night, can you A. Bright red in color, looked moist. Q. How long were you in the rear of 875 south Bundy? A. I'd say from approximately 12:25 to about :30 in the morning. Q. And your assignment or job back there during that period of time A. I was assigned by Sergeant Coon to guard that area, make sure that Q. Did any unauthorized personnel get in? A. No, sir. Q. Now, while you were back in that area, did you have occasion to A. Yes, I did. Q. And in what area? A. I put my flashlight on the ground and as I walked towards the rear Q. Would you put on the board, exhibit 85, please? (Steve complies.) Now, when we say the rear gate, while we put on the board what's been (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as A. It appears to be the rear gate that would be leading to the rear of Q. In other words, that would be a photo of the rear gate standing A. It would be standing from the alleyway looking towards the Q. Now, was that marker that appears on the gate there at the time you A. No, sir, it was not. Q. Other than that, could you tell us whether or not what's been A. It appears to be accurate to the best of my knowledge. MR. MEDVENE: Would you put on the board exhibit 86? (Steve complies.) (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) You mentioned before seeing a blood spot on the A. It appears to be the same blood spot I observed on June 13, 1994. Q. At approximately what time? A. Oh approximately 12:30, 12:35. Q. At the time you saw the blood spot, strike that. Can you tell us whether or not the blood spot appears to be in the A. Yes. Yes, sir. Q. With the exception of the ruler and the No. 117, tell us whether or A. Yes, it is. It's accurate. Q. Do you have any memory of the coloring of the blood spot that you A. Bright red in color. Q. Did there come a time, some minutes after your observation, that A. Yes, I did. Q. Can you put on the board, please, exhibit . (Steve complies.) (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Can you describe, what is exhibits 81? A. It's the rearview of the residence leading to the alleyway. And as Q. So it would be the opposite direction of the rear gate photo we say A. That's correct. Q. Now, can you tell us whether or not that photo accurately depicts A. Yes, it does. Q. Were those marks there when you saw the gate? A. No, sir. Q. Were they, to the best of your knowledge, at some later date, put A. I believe so. Q. You were not there when a picture was taken? A. No, sir. Q. Would you put 82 on the board, please? (Steve complies.) Did you see any blood on the inside of the back gate that those early A. Yes, I did sir. Q. We've placed before you what's been marked 82. And could you tell A. Yes, sir it does. Q. Where did you remember -- what are -- what do you remember seeing A. Towards the bottom of the gate I remember seeing some blood. On the Q. Now, when you say along the bottom bar of the gate, that 115 A. No, sir. Q. Could you point just to the left as you look at the photo of the MR. BAKER: Objection. Leading, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: A drop of blood I observed. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) You were making -- I'm sorry to interrupt, you A. By the No. 115. Q. And you were circling, can you explain what you were circling? A. It's a -- well, it's a drop of blood with another drop of blood. Q. And do you recall seeing any other blood on the lower running of A. Yes, I remember seeing the blood right along in here. Q. When you say right along in here; is there a marker there now? A. Marker No. 116. Q. And you recall seeing that when? A. June 13, 1994. Q. Now, will you put up on the board, please, 142. (Steve complies.) (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) We have on the board what's been marked 142. Can A. Yes, I recognize it. That's the smudged blood along the top bar of Q. Was there ever a time when you saw that smudge that you just A. Yes, I saw it on June 13, 1994, sir. Q. Approximately? A. Approximately 12:35 in the morning. Q. From your time with the LAPD, are you familiar with what blood A. Yes, sir. Q. How so, what, in your P.D. experiences made you familiar with the A. I've been to numerous calls with victims of crime where there have Q. Any question in your mind that what you described to the jury here A. It most definitely looked like blood to me, sir. Q. And from your observation, how did they look, again, in terms of -- A. It was -- Q. -- Appearance A. Bright red in color. Some appeared to be moist or wet looking. Q. Did you prepare any notes in the early morning hours of June 13 A. Yes, I did, sir. Q. Make any notes of any blood you saw on the back gate? A. Yes, I did sir. Q. One last question, Officer Terrazas. In all your time there at A. No, sir. Q. Thank you very much. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BAKER: Q. Officer Terrazas, what was the temperature out that night on the A. I don't know what the temperature was. Q. Around 60 degrees? A. That would be fair to say, sir. Q. And the let me go back. Just a minute, you suggested that when you A. Yes, sir. Q. And you both shined your flashlight in the area and you saw the A. Yes, sir. Q. You also saw the glove, you saw the hat, it's a knit cap, right? A. Yes, sir. Q. And the scene was awash in blood; was it not? A. Yes, sir. Q. And the blood that it was washed in went all the way from when you A. That's correct, sir. Q. And you looked up there and you saw the body of the of Nicole Brown A. That's correct. Q. Didn't have any problem observing that, did you? A. No, sir. Q. It was light enough for you to see it? A. Yes, sir. Q. And then, the blood that was from Nicole Brown Simpson or from the A. That's correct. Q. And there was -- from where you were standing in front of walkway, A. That's correct, sir. Q. And there was paw prints that went south on -- on Bundy, correct? A. That's correct sir. Q. And after, in fact, when you saw it, you thought that this was a A. That's correct, sir. Q. Was it -- it was an enormous amount, true? A. Yes, sir. Q. Okay. And then you and your partner, Officer Riske, he was standing MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Calls for conclusion. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) He was standing there around -- you were both A. Yes, sir. Q. And then what you did is you then went to the left of the walkway A. That's correct, sir. Q. And as you went up the walkway, you then shined your lights over to A. No, sir. I never saw the evidence -- Q. Okay. A. -- From the foliage area, I never saw from there. Q. Okay. Now, as you got towards the house, did you go all the way up A. I don't understand sir. Q. Let me have -- no, it's 89 I believe. . Pill. MR. P. BAKER: 81. That's it. MR. BAKER: Now, can everybody see that? Can you focus that any better? MR. P. BAKER: That's about as good as I can get it. MR. BAKER: That's a little better, thank you. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Now, when you and Officer Riske arrived and after A. Yes, sir a prowler suspect now called there, sir. Q. And you had some communication with a man and a woman on woman who A. Yes, sir. Q. And then you crossed. Your car was parked on the east side. Your A. That's correct. Q. -- Of Bundy? A. That's correct, sir. Q. You walked across the street on the east side of Bundy to the west A. That's correct. Q. Is that true, you walked up the walkway, correct? A. That's correct, sir. Q. You looked up the walkway before you ever set foot on the sidewalk A. To the best of my recollection, yes, sir. Q. And then you what you see depicted -- is this 32? MR. P. BAKER: Yes. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) What you see depicted in , that's a representation A. Yes, sir. Q. And the blood was trailing down through the grout and trial, threw? A. Yes, sir. Q. And there were prints of blood in the front of the walkway area, A. Yes, sir. Q. And you and your partner, to be careful not to contaminate the A. We were very careful, sir. Q. But regardless of your degree of being careful, sir, you walked on A. Yes, sir. I walk on this area. It would be more towards the left. Q. Okay. And you got up to the area. Did you, after you had got up A. Sir, I walked up to the foliage. My partner then walked over and in Q. Did you ever, on the night of June 13, , go into the condominium A. No, sir. Q. Did you ever follow Officer Riske into the kitchen to use the phone A. No, sir. MR. BAKER: Is this a good place, Your Honor? THE COURT: It is. Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, 1:30. Don't talk about the case. Don't form or express any opinions. See you at 1:30. (At 12:00 P.M. a recess was taken until Monday, October 28,1996, 1:30 P.M. of the same day.) SANTA MONICA, CALIFORNIA MONDAY, OCTOBER 28, 1996 1:40 P.M. DEPARTMENT NO. WEQ HON. HIROSHI FUJISAKI, JUDGE (REGINA D. CHAVEZ, OFFICIAL REPORTER) (The following proceedings were held in open court, outside the MR. BLASIER: I have two exhibits I neglected to move in. I will move MR. KELLY: Your Honor, with regard to 2097, I have two objections: One Also, I don't believe it's an accurate reflection of the geographic I simply agreed to the foundation basis as to the diagram itself, and MR. BLASIER: These are times he testified to. There is no time by Roberts and Phillips -- whether there was MR. KELLY: The last, final -- I'm sorry. Are you done? MR. BLASIER: This is straight from the testimony. MR. KELLY: That Officer Riske indicated that he could not even find THE COURT: What was 1439? MR. BLASIER: 1439 was a picture outside of Bundy. THE COURT: Picture or photograph? MR. BLASIER: 1439 -- THE COURT: 1439 is received. (The instrument herein described was received in evidence as THE COURT: 2097 is not received. You can use it in your closing MR. BLASIER: Thank you, Your Honor. MR. BAKER: One other issue: That's the issue, as the court is well Our view is, obviously, LAPD did not collect all of the evidence. LAPD We're saying the LAPD did not do their job relative to the evidence. And we need this. This is relevant for two theories. It's relevant, We say LAPD did not do everything great. They did not collect all the But I certainly wanted to get the Court's ruling before we went MR. KELLY: Your Honor, with regard to the questioning of Police MR. BAKER: He said he identified it. I'm sorry; I apologize. MR. PETROCELLI: Your Honor, the position we had argued when we filed But all of the things that were not done and that might have been MR. BAKER: Respectfully, I think they tell us a lot. They tell us THE COURT: I don't think so. MR. BAKER: Well -- THE COURT: The Court, at the outset, had made a ruling; and that was This is not a case of the defendant defending against a criminal The only issue in this case, really, is whether or not the evidence Whether or not the police department did or did not act within certain MR. BAKER: So I'm clear, in terms, Your Honor called this a civil THE COURT: Mr. Baker, I'm not married to any term that I may have used MR. BAKER: Well, when they identify evidence, are you telling us that In other words, as this Court is fully aware, they have a duty to If it's I.D.'d and preserved and then lost, I assume we get to talk THE COURT: I agree. MR. BAKER: Okay. Thank you. THE COURT: All right. The only thing I am saying, Mr. Baker, is that MR. BAKER: Okay, fine. THE COURT: Okay. MR. BAKER: I wanted to be clear on that. Thank you, sir. THE COURT: All right. Bring the jury in. For the record, let me say the reason I would allow it is because it MR. BAKER: Okay. Thank you. MR. PETROCELLI: Your Honor, just so we don't interrupt any examination THE COURT: That's correct. MR. PETROCELLI: Thank you. MR. BAKER: Wait a minute. We're talking about two different things They documented -- that is, the LAPD documented -- and there will be By the way, she was lying. That was never done. That blood was destroyed. We will never know There was a triangular piece of plain paper that existed in the It never was preserved; it never was collected. If it was, it was lost We've got the lens, two lenses in the glasses. Those two lenses were That's the type of evidence we're talking about that goes to the THE COURT: No, I don't think so. That's the kind of evidence that's MR. BAKER: -- It does have probative value to rushing to judgment. You THE COURT: I'm going to stand by my rulings. Bring the jury in. (Jurors resume their respective seats.) THE CLERK: You are still under oath. Would you state your name again for the record. THE WITNESS: First Miguel, M-I-G-U-E-L, last name Terrazas, MIGUEL TERRAZAS, previously sworn, resumed the stand and testified CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BAKER: Q. Officer Terrazas, I think at the noon break, we were talking about This is your initial viewing of the victim at around 12:20 in the A. Yes. As I crossed the shrubbery and crossed over the victim, I Q. Okay. So now, on June 13, 1994, you made a -- gave a written A. Yes, sir. Q. And you made that, I take it, after the events of the evening were A. Yes. Q. And let me see if I can -- and we'll substitute -- you've agreed A. Yes, sir, it's a copy of my statement. Q. And everything in that statement is true and correct, correct? A. Yes, sir. Q. Okay. Now, you say, "I walked to the above address and saw victim A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you or did you not walk on the walkway? A. Yes, sir, I walked on the walkway as I crossed over here, sir. Q. All right. And then you indicated that after you walked over victim A. Yes, sir. As I walked over victim number and I climbed the stairs, Q. You climbed the stairs? A. Well, yes, sir. As I walked on the stairs, onto the base of the Q. Let me see if I've got this right: MR. BAKER: You want to put up here -- I guess I have it. MR. MEDVENE: If the Court please, may we have an exhibit number for MR. BAKER: Did you get it, 1439? MR. MEDVENE: Thank you. THE COURT: Is that the best you can do? MR. BAKER: That's awful. Try 36. It's still off. Try 36. (Exhibit 36 being displayed.) Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Now, as I understand in your testimony, you walked A. Yes, sir. Q. You walked up westbound to the area where the front gate is; then A. I believe there was some grass in the area. I walked over here, Q. So, you went up the steps? A. Yes, sir. Q. And how far up the steps did you go? A. Well, sir, I walked to the front door, so I walked all the way on Q. And how far was the front door from the top of that landing of the A. Not very good with measurements. I'd say approximately 10, 15 feet, Q. Okay. And was the front door right at the beginning of the house or A. To the best of my recollection, it's close to the entrance, sir. Q. In other words, if you walk up the steps, your recollection is that A. Approximately about 10 to 15 from the base of the stairwell, sir. Q. All right. And -- A. To the top. Q. And the entrance, then, is kind of on -- the door is on an angle, A. As I recall, no; it just sits -- Q. Flush on the front of the -- A. As I recall it, yes, sir. Q. Okay. And did you go in the house? A. No, sir. Q. And was Officer Riske with you at that time? A. Yes, he was. Q. And did he go into the house at that time? A. Yes, he did. Q. And why is it you didn't go in with him? A. I was just there -- I wanted to ensure no one came up behind me via Q. I see. So, now, the situation that you had when you approached that A. Yes. Q. And you have no idea what's in the house, right? A. I have no idea. Q. And your partner has no idea what's in the house, right? MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Calls for conclusion. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Did you talk to your partner about whether or not he A. No, sir. Q. Did either of you have your service revolvers drawn? A. Yes. Q. Did you? A. Yes. Q. Did he? A. I don't remember. Q. And so you -- he walked into the house and you then returned to A. He walked into the -- he walked into the house as I stood in I then put my light on the envelope, the glove, and the cap. I Q. All right. Now, you didn't actually see your partner use the phone, A. I believe I did, sir, to the best of my recollection. Yes, I did; I Q. So from the entrance way, in the house, you could visualize him on A. As I poked my head into the door, into the residence, I saw him at Q. Okay. And your recollection is, of course, you never stepped in the A. I'm not saying I had a full few, sir. I observed my partner using Q. Let me ask you: When you looked -- when you peeked your head in the A. To the best of my recollection, yes, sir. Q. Okay. And could you see the instrument called a telephone, Officer A. I saw the hand portion, where you talk into. That is the portion I Q. So at the time you looked into the front door, your partner was on A. To the best of my recollection, yes, sir. Q. Now, did you walk up the stairwell -- the stairs onto that landing A. I don't understand, sir. Q. Poor question. I apologize. You both walked across, towards where A. Yes. Q. He was in the lead? A. He went ahead of me, sir. Approximately, maybe ten seconds later, I Q. And in that ten seconds, what did you do? He led in or was just -- A. I just stood by, sir. Q. You've got to wait till I finish; and I'll be happy to wait until In that ten seconds, did you -- was that just the natural progression A. It was for me, sir. Q. All right. And then he had -- when you got up to the landing, why A. Once again, sir, my concern is, I didn't want nobody to walk up Q. Now, did you look directly in the front door? Did you look directly into the kitchen? Was there another room was there, or just the kitchen area? A. I can't remember, sir. Q. Okay. And then your partner stayed on the phone. In a few minutes, A. Yes. Q. And you walked down the stairs and viewed the evidence that you A. Yes. Q. And you viewed that same evidence, you told us when Mr. Medvene A. Yes. Q. So you viewed it twice? A. Yes. Q. All right. Then you came back and you got -- did you go to your A. I walked up onto the shrubbery where, to the best of my Q. Did you see your partner go around to the north side of the A. To the north side, sir. Q. Yes. A. I don't understand your question as to -- Q. When you and Officer Riske exited the condominium and you walked A. To the best of my recollection, sir, we were intercepted by Q. Then you went directly to the back of 875 South Bundy? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you watch your partner go around to the north side of 875 South A. No, sir, not that I can remember, no. Q. Okay. Excuse me. Let me just show you what you wrote at 4:20 in the "Walked over victim 2 and saw the door to South Bundy Drive wide open. "I returned to my vehicle, where I met Sergeant" -- "met with Sergeant A. If I walked to the vehicle, yes, sir. Q. Well, I'm asking you, is that what you wrote in the morning hours, A. Yes, that's what I wrote, sir. Q. Okay. And as you sit here now, you don't have any recollection of A. I don't remember, no, sir. Q. Okay. Fair enough. Now, you went down south on Bundy, turned right A. Yes, sir. Q. Had it been taped by then? A. No. Q. And you maintained your vigil outside the rear of 875 South Bundy A. Yes. Q. And you did that till 4:20 in the morning, when you signed and A. Yes. Q. All right. And during that period of time, you saw various people A. Yes. Q. All right. Now, first of all, when you got there, had anybody, to A. Not from the alley, sir. Q. All right. Now, you got there, I assume, what, about 12:40? A. 12:35. Q. Okay. A. 12:40-ish. That's a good -- approximately. Q. So you were there for three hours and 40 or so minutes, correct? A. Approximately, sir. Q. All right. Now, during that period of time, who was the first A. Through the rear, sir? Q. Yes. A. Believe it was Sergeant Rossi. It was Sergeant Rossi. Q. And was Sergeant Rossi with anybody? A. To the best of my recollection, he was -- would be my partner, Q. Anybody else? A. No, sir. Q. Did anybody come out of the rear of 875 South Bundy before you A. Yes. Q. -- area? A. Yes. Q. Who? A. There was a -- there were the two children -- I believe it was Q. That was the patrol car in the alley? A. Yes, it was. Q. And Officer Vasquez an the two children were the first people that A. Yes. Q. All right. And there is a door that leads from the garage into the A. Can you repeat that, sir? Q. Be happy to. There is a door in the garage that leads into the A. I never went inside the garage, but there must be, sir. Q. Well, I mean you saw -- A. I saw. Q. -- various people in three hours and forty minutes. You saw five or A. Yes, sir. Q. You saw the entrance to the residence? A. All I knew, there was a door there. Where it went, I didn't know. Q. Did you think it was the residence? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, in terms of when you got there at :35 or so in the morning, A. When I arrived to the rear of the alley, Yes, I did, sir. Q. And you then noted some blood that you documented in your report, A. Correct. Q. And all the evidence that you noted, you documented in your report A. Not all the evidence. I didn't annotate all the evidence in my Q. What was your report for if it was not to, number 1, indicate your A. Sir, my report was just a brief overview of what I had done and Q. Well, did you -- you told us about some blood drops on the back MR. BAKER: You want to put up Exhibit 82? Okay. Then you can't put it Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Now, you indicated when you were being examined this A. Yes, sir. Q. And that's this area, correct? A. That would be this area here, sir. Q. And 116? A. 116 would be this area here, sir. Q. This morning you also indicated those two dots right by the rung, A. Are you saying these right here, sir? Q. Yeah. A. I don't remember, sir. Q. Okay. Now, do you have a recollection, as you sit her now, whether A. I'm looking, I believe, at what would be looking -- as the gate lay Q. And how many drops of blood did you visualize when you were looking A. At the gate itself, sir? Q. Yeah, let's just keep it to the gate. A. Overall, the total on the gate, meaning the top, the mesh, and the Q. Everything. A. Well, the top bar had a smudge -- I consider that one smudge of Q. Okay. A. The lower portion on the mesh appeared to be another -- appeared to Q. Is that rust, Officer Terrazas, that you just put your pointer? A. To the best of my recollection, no, sir. Q. That's blood drops, right? A. Yes, sir. Q. All right. Go ahead. A. Another one here. Q. All right. A. That would be one, two, three, four -- approximately four, sir. Q. Okay. You want to read to the jury what you put in your report at A. Yes, sir. (Witness reviews documents.) Q. Right at the bottom. A. Says, "I then walked towards the" -- "towards the side gate of the Q. So what you wrote on your report after you had been at the scene A. Sir, there was a trail of blood, meaning, i.e., the bottom, the Q. On the gate, Officer Terrazas, you observed and wrote on June 13, A. Yes. Q. Thank you. And what you say -- well, strike that. Now, in terms of your being behind the garage and in charge of access, A. That's correct. Q. And so, all police officers were authorized to get into the A. Not all police officers, sir. Q. Now, if in fact the robbery/homicide division had taken over at MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Q. (Continuing.) -- unless they were with robbery/homicide? MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Calls for conclusion. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Officer Terrazas, the minute robbery/homicide MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Calls for conclusion; assumes facts not in THE COURT: Without foundation. Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Do you know whether or not when the robbery/homicide A. At the time no one -- no one advised me that robbery/homicide had Q. Regardless of what -- I'm talking now in the abstract. You knew on June 13, 1994, that if, in fact, robbery/homicide takes MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Argumentative; assumes facts not in evidence; THE COURT: Sustained. If he didn't know, it's irrelevant. MR. BAKER: I think he -- THE COURT: He said he didn't know. MR. BAKER: I'm sorry. THE COURT: He said he did not know whether they took over; therefore, Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Officer Terrazas, are you telling us that you didn't MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Argumentative. Asked and answered. THE COURT: Overruled. A. Sir, the only thing I was told was that robbery/homicide had Q. When robbery/homicide takes it at a crime scene -- THE COURT: Mr. Baker, I'm going to sustain my own objection. I think that -- let's establish that this is not the witness from Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Now, after you saw Officer Riske and Officer Rossi What time did they get there? THE COURT: Who? MR. BAKER: Riske and Rossi. THE WITNESS: Maybe 20 to 30 minutes later, after I had arrived from Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Okay, sometime shortly after 1 o'clock, around A. Approximately, sir. Q. Okay. And tell me what you observed Officer Rossi and Officer Riske A. I believe I walked -- to the best of my recollection, I walked with Q. And what you had seen, you walked down the walkway on the north A. No, sir, I didn't walk -- are you saying I walked -- if I walked Q. No. I apologize. Another poor question. Did you or Officer Riske take Officer Rossi and go eastbound on the A. Yes. As the gate was open, sir, we did walk into the walkway, Q. And how far did you walk, approximately? A. Two, three feet, approximately. Q. That's beyond the gate? A. Two, three feet, approximately. Q. Didn't see any footprints, did you? A. Sir, the only footprints I saw was would be at the far east end of Q. Did you see any footprints in the entrance by the west gate when A. No, sir. Q. Okay. And you only went a couple feet in and turned around and came A. That's correct. Q. And then what did Officers Riske and Rossi do, if anything? A. They put their flashlights on the gate and the actual walkway, the Q. Did you see Officers Rossi and Riske go into the condominium? A. I did not see -- I did not see Sergeant Rossi walk into the Q. Did you see Officer Riske walk into the condominium at or about A. No, sir. Q. Thereafter, when did you next see an officer go into the A. I don't remember seeing any, sir. Q. Let me see if I can get this straight. Between the time that you arrived there, that would be 12:35, until A. Sir, I saw, I believe it was Detective Fuhrman, I believe it was Q. All together? A. No, sir; throughout that time frame, sir. Q. What time did you see Detective Fuhrman go into the property? MR. MEDVENE: Objection, Your Honor. Vague and ambiguous in terms of THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) What time did you see Mark Fuhrman from your vantage A. I didn't happen to see my watch at the time. I really wouldn't know Q. Approximately? A. From the time I arrived, approximately maybe 1:30, 1:45, maybe. Q. All right. And who did Fuhrman go into the structure with, that you A. I can't remember, sir. Q. Do you remember if he went in with anybody? A. I don't remember, sir. Q. It was important for you to know who went in and exited the house, A. That's correct, sir. Q. Did you see him go into the property with Ron Phillips, Detective A. I remember seeing Detective Phillips at the scene, sir. I believe Q. All right. Did you ever see Officer Riske walk in from your vantage A. From the front door or from the garage, sir. Q. It's true you never saw Riske enter from the back door and go into A. Not that I can remember, sir. Q. You have no recollection of Riske entering from the back? A. I don't remember, sir. Q. Now, Phillips, when -- do you remember who he entered with, if A. I don't remember, sir. Q. You don't remember what time? A. I don't, sir. Q. Do you remember if Frank Spangler ever went in the rear entrance? A. Who? Q. Lieutenant Spangler. Do you know who he is? A. I don't remember him, sir. Q. Now, do you remember anybody -- well, strike that. When did you see Detective Vannatter enter the house from your vantage A. I don't remember the time. I would have to speculate, sir. Q. And did you illuminate the surrounding area, also? A. It would be a really rough estimate. I don't remember looking at my MR. MEDVENE: If the Court please, if the witness has a memory, he can THE COURT: Excuse me? MR. MEDVENE: We'd like some foundation, Your Honor, whether the THE COURT: -- own statement. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) How many hours did you spend with Mr. Medvene before A. After Mr. Simpson was acquitted? Q. Yeah. How many hours did you spend with Mr. Medvene? A. Maybe an hour, total. Q. Who else did you spend time with to prepare yourself to testify A. Who I spoke with? Just Mr. Medvene and the gentleman in the red Q. Okay. Okay. You never talked to anyone from the defense side, did A. No, sir. Q. Now, what's your best estimate, sir, as to when Mr. Phillip A. I would be -- strictly guessing, it would be sometime between maybe Q. Well, do you have a sense, as you sit here now, since it was your A. Yes, sir. If I saw identification on the individual, sir. And with Q. Had you ever met Detective Vannatter before this time? A. No, sir. Q. So Detective Vannatter showed you I.D.; then you let anybody he A. Yes, if he was a detective; yes, sir. Q. Do you know who went in with Detective Vannatter? A. I have no idea, sir. Q. Do you have a recollection, as you sit here now, of anybody else A. From what I can remember, sir, no, sir. Q. All right. Now, did you -- when you viewed the gloves, did you note MR. MEDVENE: Objection, Your Honor. Misstates the testimony. The MR. BAKER: I apologize. He saw it twice. I didn't mean -- I apologize. Can you put up Exhibit 89. (Steve complies.) Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Let me show you Exhibit , and ask you to take a look (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Can you see that, Officer? A. Yes, sir. Q. And is that approximately where you saw the glove when you first A. It was under some foliage, like that, sir; yes, sir. Q. Okay. And to your knowledge, was that glove moved? A. When I arrived, sir? Q. Yeah. A. No, sir; it was never moved when I was there. Q. Now, this is Exhibit 1327. That glove has now been moved, has it MR. MEDVENE: Objection, Your Honor. Lack of foundation. Mr. Baker was MR. BAKER: I'm going to object, too. There has been no evidence that MR. MEDVENE: Mr. Baker knows those two pictures were taken at THE COURT: Excuse me, Counsel. If you have an objection, I want you to MR. BAKER: May we approach the bench? THE COURT: You may. (The following proceedings were held at the bench, with the reporter.) MR. MEDVENE: If the Court please, Mr. Baker showed this witness two And there is no foundation established as to when these photographs And what my objection is, is that Mr. Baker, knowingly, I think, has I'll represent to Your Honor that the coroner didn't get there until Mr. Baker's theory is, it was taken a little before. But the other I guess all I'm saying, Your Honor, is -- THE COURT: What's the foundation for that second photo? MR. MEDVENE: The photo that we asked about on direct. THE COURT: What's the foundation for the second photo? MR. MEDVENE: When you say the second photo, you mean the one -- THE COURT: What is the foundation for the second photo? MR. BAKER: Your Honor, the one they already put up, the other photo THE COURT: What is that one right there? MR. MEDVENE: Detective -- THE COURT: Mr. Baker, you walked away. What is the foundation for that MR. BAKER: That photo right there? Well, the photograph was taken THE COURT: When was the other photograph taken? MR. BAKER: Before dawn, as well. MR. MEDVENE: Detective Lange will say the first photo that Mr. Baker THE COURT: Excuse me. I'm going sustain the objection of that MR. BAKER: All right. (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Now, after -- strike that. Did you leave after 4:20 in the morning? A. (No verbal response.) Q. The crime scene? A. No, sir. Q. What did you do after you signed off your witness statement at 0420 A. I walked to Dorothy and Bundy and was assigned to continue the Q. And did you then continue the crime-scene log until when? A. I continued it approximately, maybe an hour, I believe. Q. To about 5:20? A. Approximately, sir. Q. As the keeper of crime-scene log, you were to log in and out every A. Any LAPD, yes, sir, or any other officers. Yes, sir. Q. Did you do that, Officer Terrazas? A. To the best of my ability, yes, sir. Q. Did you log out officers when they left the scene? A. To the best of my ability, yes. Q. And did you log out Detective Vannatter when he left the scene? A. If he left when I was there, yes, sir. Q. All right. See where it says Detective Vannatter, his badge -- I A. I believe that to be a serial number. Q. 14877? A. Yes, sir. Q. Okay. You see what time he checked in over there, 0405, on the A. Yes, sir. Q. You see what time he checked out? A. There is none, sir. Q. Do you know what time he left? A. No, sir, I don't. Q. And you were in charge of the crime log from at least 4:20 to 5:20, A. Yes, sir. Approximately 5:20, sir. Q. 5:20. That's not -- A. Till approximately 5:20 sir, in the morning. Q. That's not the time you have Vannatter check out of there? A. No, sir. Q. Move it up, see what time you have. We have -- you have Detective Well, see, so you've got Detective Lange checking in 0425 in the A. That's not my entry, sir. Q. Okay. Now, if Detective Vannatter left the crime scene at 5 o'clock A. It was at approximately 0520 hours. Yes, sir, I had an obligation. Q. It was at 5 o'clock you had an obligation, as well? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And to look at that log, he's still there, right? A. Yes, sir. Q. Okay. Now, one of the things that you need a crime-scene log to be A. Can you repeat it once more, sir? Q. One of the reasons you need an accurate crime-scene log is, if in A. That's correct. Q. And can you tell me what time in that log entry, what time Rokahr A. (No verbal response.) Q. See 3 above Vannatter? I know it's difficult to see there. MR. MEDVENE: If the Court please, the exhibit speaks for itself. The THE COURT: I guess that was -- I can't tell what it says. MR. BAKER: That's why I was asking. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) In any event, do you know who photographer Rokahr A. I remember seeing a photographer there. I don't know who he is. Q. Did you see, while you were on your post between 12:35 and 420, MR. BAKER: You can turn it off. A. To the best of my recollection, no, sir. I don't remember. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Did you log out Detectives Phillips and Fuhrman, A. Did I log them out, sir? Q. Yeah. A. If they left between that time, I was supposed to, sir. Q. I didn't ask you if you were supposed to. I think we established A. I don't believe I logged him out because I had already gone home, Q. You had gone home at 0500 hours? A. No, no, sir. I left at 5 o'clock. Q. You didn't go home until 7:15, did you? A. Approximately. Q. Now, did you see Rokahr or any police photographer, regardless of A. From the rear? I don't remember. Q. You don't recall a photographer? A. I don't recall seeing a photographer back there. Q. You certainly didn't tell any police photographer what evidence he A. No, sir. Q. Okay. Did you at any time see a police photographer when you were A. I don't remember seeing one, sir. Q. So you don't recall seeing a police photographer at any time, A. No, sir. I don't remember seeing him. Q. And as best you recall, as you sit here now, in the three hours and MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Asked an answered. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. BAKER: Nothing further, Your Honor. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MEDVENE: Q. Did anyone from the -- any representative of Mr. Simpson, call you A. No, sir. Q. If they had, would you have spoken with them? MR. BAKER: Calls for speculation. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) If you assumed that Detectives Fuhrman and MR. BAKER: I object to the hypothetical in terms of time. He already THE COURT: Why don't you rephrase the question and ask him what time Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) The blood that you've described finding on the A. Approximately 12:30, 12:35, approximately. Q. Had Detective Fuhrman and Detective Phillips arrived at Bundy prior A. I don't remember seeing them back there, sir. They could have Q. You were the first officer on the scene with Officer Riske? A. Yes, sir. Q. When you made the observation you've testified about, about seeing A. No, sir. MR. MEDVENE: May I approach the witness, Your Honor? THE COURT: You may. MR. MEDVENE: Your Honor, I'm going to place in front of the witness THE CLERK: 2098. (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as MR. BAKER: Your Honor, may I observe? MR. MEDVENE: I'm sorry. MR. BAKER: I understand that. I want to watch him mark what he's going MR. MEDVENE: I'm going to place before Officer Terrazas, the Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) And I'd ask you to circle, if you would -- MR. BAKER: Do you want this? THE WITNESS: That's okay. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) I ask you to circle. If you would, the blood spot A. (Witness complies.) Q. And if you would, circle the blood spot that you observed as 116. A. (Witness complies.) Q. Would you put your initial next to each, sir. A. (Witness complies.) Q. Would you please place on the board what's been marked 2098. A. Mark it? Q. Would you point out to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury the A. (Witness complies.) Q. Thank you, sir. THE COURT: And would you point out to the ladies and gentlemen of the A. (Witness complies.) Q. And you made both those circles and put down your initials? A. That's correct. Q. Thank you. One last question: When you wrote your report, did you mean to include MR. BAKER: Objection. Leading, suggestive, argumentative. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Can you tell us whether your report was to record MR. BAKER: Same objection. THE COURT: Overruled. A. No, sir. Just a brief overview of what I did and what I observed. MR. MEDVENE: If the Court please, I'd move into evidence. THE COURT: Received. (The instrument herein described was received in evidence as MR. MEDVENE: Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Officer RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BAKER: Q. Let me show you Exhibit 2098 again, Officer. Now, right before the 116, you indicated this was blood drops on the A. Yes, sir. Q. And you did it on Exhibit 82, correct? A. If this is Exhibit 82. Q. Yeah. A. Yes, sir. Q. You want to circle that? A. Circle what, sir? Q. The blood drops that you showed on the mesh. A. Oh, yes, sir. Q. Thank you. MR. BAKER: I'm going to object. MR. MEDVENE: I'm waiting. MR. BAKER: I wasn't. You want to put this up? Can you focus that in? Maybe, maybe not. That's better. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Now, you circled an area right above the No. 116, A. Yes, sir. Q. And you thought that was a blood spot, and that's what you A. To the best of my recollection, yes, sir. Q. Thank you. Nothing further. MR. MEDVENE: If you would, put on the board, please, 85. FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MEDVENE: Q. What is 85, Officer Terrazas? A. It appears to be the rear gate leading into the residence from the MR. MEDVENE: Would you put on the board 86, please. (Steve complies.) Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Would you take a look at 86. And what is that? A. Appears to be the blood drop I observed June 13, 1994, sir. Q. From looking -- A. It would be, looking at it, eastbound. And the gate itself would be Q. That be the area you were outside, guarding? A. Outside, looking into the walkway. MR. MEDVENE: May I approach, Your Honor? Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) I'm going to place in front of you what we're (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as Q. I'm going to ask if you would be good enough to circle the area of A. (Witness complies.) MR. MEDVENE: Would you please place on the board what's been marked as (Steve complies.) Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Can you just point out for the jury where you've A. (Witness complies.) Q. What is that? A. Its a blood drop I observed June 13, , on the rear gate of 875 Q. Facing? A. Facing westbound, sir. Q. You say facing westbound -- MR. BAKER: I'll object, Your Honor. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) As you stand outside the gate, which direction is MR. BAKER: Leading. THE COURT: Overruled. A. As I stand outside the gate, the gate would face westbound; the Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) So, in other words, if the victims are found in A. You lost me, sir. Q. If the victims are found roughly where the court reporter is -- A. Correct. Q. -- and you walk westbound to the gate, and the gate is approximately where the podium is -- A. Correct. Q. -- you were standing guard between approximately 12:30 and 4 A. To the rear, sir. It would be outside the gate area, sir. Q. And Exhibit 2099 that you just drawn a circle around would be A. It would be outside, sir, towards the alleyway. Q. On the outside of the alley? A. On the outside portion, yes, sir. MR. MEDVENE: Thank you very much. I have nothing further. We move in THE COURT: Received. (The instrument herein described was received in evidence as FURTHER RECROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. BAKER: Q. Now, did you find the blood drops that you, circled at 115 and 116 A. I didn't open the gate, sir. Q. Well, who opened the gate? MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Outside the scope of redirect. THE COURT: You may reopen. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Who opened the gate? A. My partner, Officer Riske. Q. Then you went inside the gate, into the walkway with him, correct? A. That's correct. Q. And was it at that time that you saw the blood drops? A. Yes, sir. Yes, as I walked in there, sir. Q. As you walked in, you saw the blood drops, correct? A. As I walked in, in the inside portion, yes, sir. I examined the Q. All right. So that I'm clear, we'll use Mr. Medvene's example. And A. To the best of my recollection, it would open in a westerly motion, Q. When you went through gate, did you push it open, or did it come A. I never pushed it open, sir. Q. Regardless of who moved it, did it go towards you, or what? A. It would come towards me, going westbound, sir. Q. Did you -- as you got inside the gate, did you then turn around and A. Yes, sir. Q. Is that when you examined and found all three blood spots? A. Yes, sir. Q. Okay. And so when you examined and found all three blood spots, MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Vague and ambiguous. What all three blood MR. BAKER: 115, 116, 117. MR. MEDVENE: He also mentioned one on top, Your Honor. THE COURT: This is Mr. Baker's question. Overruled. MR. BAKER: I need help, but not yours. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Now, you understand the question? A. Can you repeat it? It's the one with the three circles, 115, 116. Q. Okay. Now, 115, 116, and the bloody spot on the mesh -- A. Correct. Q. -- those you observed, sir, by being inside, if you will, between A. To the best of my recollection, yes, sir. Q. All right. And after you had observed all three of those blood A. I -- Q. -- at the time, I mean. A. Officer Riske knew about them, sir. Q. He knew about them or didn't know about them? A. I told him about them. Q. You told him about all three of the blood spots: The one you A. To the best of my recollection, yes, sir. Q. All right. MR. BAKER: Do I don't have anything further. MR. MEDVENE: If the Court please, I believe that's 208. THE COURT: Okay. MR. MEDVENE: One second, Your Honor. (Referring to photos that were marked by counsel.) MR. MEDVENE: If you'll indulge me one moment, Your Honor. I apologize. (Pause in proceedings.) FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MEDVENE: Q. Just so I'm clear, Officer Terrazas, did you, if you looked at the A. Yes, sir. Q. Looking at the gate that way, can you tell us whether or not you A. Looking from the outside, looking eastbound towards the house, I Q. Is that the blood you described and circled a few minutes ago? A. Yes, sir. Q. After you walked in within the gate and you looked outward -- in A. Yes, sir. Q. Is that the blood that's up on the board now, where you circled 115 MR. BAKER: Objection. Leading and suggestive of those two being THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer. A. Yes, it is the blood I circled, sir. MR. MEDVENE: Nothing further. FURTHER RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BAKER: Q. Officer Terrazas, the one you circled above 116, is that the one A. No, sir; that's not what I believe at all, sir. Q. All right. So the one you've circled here, too, that's a blood A. From the best of my recollection yes, sir. Q. That's a blood drop you viewed east, looking west, right? A. To its best of my recollection, yes, sir. Q. You say there's another one you viewed west, looking east? A. Yes, sir. That would be the first one I observed, the one that was Q. So you looked at four separate blood drops plus the top of the A. There would be one on the outside, sir -- one on the outside, one Q. And the middle one is the one that's right above 116? A. From what I can remember sir, yes, sir. Q. Now, were you ever shown those photos in the meeting you had with A. Yes, I was, sir. Q. Did he take you through these photos and show you the blood drops A. Yes, sir. Q. That's what you did for an hour with Mr. Medvene, go over the A. Mostly just the blood-drop photos. Q. Most of the hour, you went through the photos the blood-drop photos A. Approximately, yes, sir. MR. BAKER: Thank you. Nothing further. MR. MEDVENE: Nothing further. THE COURT: Thank you. You're excused. Ten-minutes' recess, ladies and gentlemen. Don't talk about the case; don't form or express any opinions. (Recess.) (Jurors resume their respective seats.) MR. BAKER: Your Honor, I'd like to move into evidence label 1327, THE COURT: Wait a minute. THE CLERK: We had referred to this exhibit as . That's the wrong MR. PETROCELLI: Is 101 our number? THE CLERK: Yes. MR. PETROCELLI: So what's being moved in, 101? MR. BAKER: 101, really? 40's already in? THE COURT: Received. (The instrument herein described was received in evidence as THE COURT: I got a request from the jurors that the lawyers introduce The problem, ladies and gentlemen, is that, you know, there seems to JUROR: Not everybody. Just, for example, that gentleman who was THE COURT: That's Mr. Medvene. There's two beards. MR. PETROCELLI: This is Mr. Medvene, Mr. Gelblum. And we have Mr. MR. KELLY: Anybody else? John Kelly, representing the estate of Nicole MR. BREWER: Mike Brewer representing Sharon Rufo. And at times, I'll MR. BAKER: Bob Baker. This is Dan Leonard, Bob Blaiser. That's my son THE COURT: And Mr. Baker, you have a couple other attorneys that come MR. BAKER: Melissa Bluestein comes every now and again. THE COURT: Is there another? MR. BAKER: I think that's about it; isn't it? Yeah. THE COURT: Okay. I thought there was somebody else but that's okay. MR. BAKER: Possibly thinking of Richard Gabriel the consultant. THE COURT: Oh, the consultant. MR. MEDVENE: Can we be heard later on 101 in terms of foundation? THE COURT: Okay. MR. MEDVENE: Thank you. Sergeant David Rossi. DAVID ROSSI, called as a witness on behalf of Plaintiff Goldman, was THE CLERK: You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in THE WITNESS: I do. THE CLERK: Please be seated. MR. MEDVENE: The Court please, the parties have stipulated to (The instrument herein described was admitted into evidence as THE CLERK: Sir, would you please state and spell your name for the THE WITNESS: My name is David Rossi, R-O-S-S-I. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MEDVENE: Q. What is your occupation, sir? A. I'm a Sergeant for the Los Angeles police department presently Q. And how long have you been with the Los Angeles police department? A. I've been with Los Angeles police department 27 years; 27 and a Q. How long have you been a Sergeant? A. 17 years. Q. What's your present assignment? A. I am the night watch or the p.m. watch assistant, watch commander. Q. And what was your assignment as of June , 13, 1994? A. I was the morning watch, watch commander. Q. And what did you do or what was your principle job as watch A. Watch commanders are responsible for, and held accountable for all I discuss crime problems with them. I approve, I review and approve And I respond to the field when called, or in some cases, I respond to Q. Under what circumstances do you go to the scene? A. If I'm called by a field supervisor to respond, or if a police Q. And what are your duties when you respond to the scene on a A. Prior to responding, my duty is to make several notifications to Q. Did you receive any call in the early morning hours of June 13? A. Yes, sir, I did. Q. Approximately when and from whom? A. It was sometime between midnight and :30 in the morning and I Q. And did you receive certain information from him? A. Officer Riske told me he had responded to a radio call in the Q. Did you give him any instructions? A. I asked him if he had -- well, he told me prior to that that the Q. Shortly thereafter, did you receive another call? A. Yes, sir, I did. Q. From whom? A. I received a call from Sergeant Martin Coon who was the field Q. Did you make a determination whether or not Sergeant Coon was at A. Yes, I did. He told me he was at the scene. Q. And did you give Sergeant Coon any instructions? A. Sergeant Coon reiterated what Officer Riske had told me. And by the MR. BAKER: Objection. Calls for hearsay. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. BAKER: And relevancy. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Did you make any notifications? A. Yes, I did. Q. To any detectives? A. Yes, sir. I called the homicide detective, Detective Phillips. Q. And the purpose of that call? A. Because he handles all the homicides and responds when he's off Q. Is -- did there come a time that you responded to the scene? A. That I responded to the scene, yes, sir. After I finished my Q. Approximately what time did you get to south Bundy? A. I believe it was approximately 1:20, 1:25 in the morning. Q. And what's the first thing you did on arrival? A. First thing I did after exiting the police car is I walked to the MR. BAKER: Move to strike in view of the court's prior ruling. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. BAKER: That the banner tape and officer place taping out of the THE COURT: It's already in. MR. BAKER: I request it be stricken from the record. THE COURT: It will not be stricken. Objection came too late. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Did you then make any request of Sergeant Coon and A. Yes, I did. They spoke with me in front of the location in the MR. BAKER: Object to anything more than yes. THE COURT: Sustained. THE WITNESS: Yes. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) As a result of this, did you then do something? A. Yes. I asked Sergeant Coon and Officer Riske to escort me through Q. And why did you want to be escorted through the crime scene? A. Because I'm the watch commander and the responding detectives will Q. And were you then escorted through the crime scene? A. Yes, sir, I was. MR. MEDVENE: May I approach, Your Honor, put up an exhibit? THE COURT: Go ahead. MR. MEDVENE: Is that visible? JURORS: (Nod in the affirmative.) MR. MEDVENE: Your Honor, may the witness leave the chair and walk over THE COURT: You may. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) We have before you what's marked as 2058 and I ask (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as A. Yes, I have. Q. And when did you see that person? A. That's the body of the female that I observed at the front of the Q. And I direct you to exhibit 38. Appears to be a body of a male. Did A. Yes, sir, I did. THE COURT: Counsel, why don't you put that on a higher rung so that MR. MEDVENE: Yes, Your Honor. MR. BAKER: Those other two fold out halfway down. They'll fold out. MR. MEDVENE: Everybody see? JURORS: Um-hum. MR. MEDVENE: Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: Use the pointer if you're going to have him do anything Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Now, would you be good enough Sergeant to -- those A. The way I saw it when I -- Q. Yes. (Witness complies. Adjusts photos.) A. I would say approximately like that. Q. Would you when you observed the scene, did you have any artificial A. Yes, sir, I did. Q. And what was that light source? A. I was using a flashlight. Q. And could you point out to us -- do you have the pointer? A. Yes, sir. Q. Can you point out to us what you observed? A. I observed the female body lying in the position that appears here. Q. Did you see any other items? A. I observed an envelope, one glove and hat, appeared to be watch Q. Let me put up on the TV, if I might, exhibit 38. I ask if that's clear for the jurors. If the light's off, it's clear. Q. If you'd put up 89, please. 89 has been placed in front of you. A. That appears to be a knit watch cap. Q. And next to it? A. And a glove. Q. And could you please point on 2058 where you saw those items? A. Very close to the area of this plant right here. Q. Can you tell us whether or not you illuminated the area thoroughly? A. Yes, I did. With my flashlight. Q. And did you observe more than one glove? A. No, sir, I did not. Q. And where did you make your observation of the area? From what A. I was standing in the grassy area, possibly about six feet south of Q. All right. Thank you. You may resume the witness stand. After observing what you've told us about, where did you go? A. I then walked with the Sergeant and the officer back down to the Q. Can you tell us whether or not, on your way from the front to the A. Yes, sir, I did all the way. Q. With what? A. With the same high power flashlight I was using. Q. On the way from the scene, as you described it, to the rear, did A. No, sir. Q. Did there come a time that you got to the rear gate? A. Yes. Q. Put up -- and did you walk through the gate? A. Yes, I did. Q. Can you put up 82, please? Can you tell us what is 82, if you recall? Exhibit 82 is on the board? A. That appears to be the gate -- that gate that I saw in the rear. Q. Did anyone point anything else out to you on the gate? A. Officer Riske, shined his flashlight on the rear, on the bottom Q. Could you take a look at exhibit 82 and ask what, or can you tell A. That appears to be the blood that I observed that night on the Q. Can you -- could you -- were those markers, 115 and 116, on the A. No, sir. Q. Could you point out the drops that you remember seeing? A. Here and here. MR. BAKER: Let the record reflect that he pointed to the dark spots THE WITNESS: Yes. MR. BAKER: Right. Directly lower. THE COURT: Actually that's the not a rung that's a vertical bar. MR. BAKER: Vertical bar. I guess a rung goes the other way. THE COURT: Yeah. MR. BAKER: I apologize. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Officer Rossi, your memory is that you saw certain A. Yes. Q. And then what did you do? A. Then I walked out of the walkway and to the back, to the rear of Q. And sometime later, strike that, were Detectives Phillips and Fuhrman at the Bundy scene at the time you had A. No, they weren't. Q. And approximately how much later did they arrive, if you know? A. Approximately half an hour later. Q. Did there come a time later that morning when you went back to west A. Yes, sir. MR. MEDVENE: I have nothing further, Your Honor. THE COURT: Cross. MR. MEDVENE: Court please, we'd move in 2058. THE COURT: Received. (The instrument herein described was received in evidence as CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. BAKER: Q. Now, how long did you meet with Mr. Medvene, Officer Rossi? A. Approximately two hours. Q. And did you go through this little exercise that you'd done here A. Yes. Q. And you kind of worked it out so that you could get this one on A. Yes, sir. Q. Correct. All right. And then I went through the -- when was that, A. Last night. Q. And then you went through the photos so you could get the blood A. He showed me the photos, yes. Q. Did you want to put that one back up? While they're getting that -- Okay. Have we got a lazer of that? Now this photograph, did he tell you this photograph was taken on July A. No, sir. Q. Did he show you any photograph at all of the back gate that was A. I don't know when the photographs were taken. Q. Did he represent to you that that photograph right there was taken A. No. Q. Did you understand that to be the case? A. No. Q. Now, you believe that the blood spot is here and here, right? A. Yes, sir. Q. And -- well, never mind. Now, I want to go back and have you just draw on a laser photograph A. Put my initials? Q. Yes, if you'd be kind enough, sure I'd appreciate it. Thank you. Did you see any other blood drops on the back gate that night? A. No, I didn't. Q. All right. Now, nothing on the mesh? A. I didn't notice anything. Q. Okay. I want to, if we may, sir, I want to go back to when you were THE CLERK: 2100. MR. BAKER: 2100. Thank you. (The instrument herein described was marked for identification as Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Now, were you in uniform the night of June 13, 1994? A. Yes, I was. Q. And when you were at you're -- at west Los Angeles police A. Yes, sir. Q. And that's on the corner of Santa Monica and Purdue, right? A. Santa Monica and Butler. Q. I'm sorry. And that is west and south of the crime location, A. I think east and south, I would think. Q. East it is? Thank you. You're absolutely right. Now, when you got A. Yes, I did. Q. And did you understand that he was in the house in the condominium A. I don't remember where he called from. I don't know where he called Q. Did you believe that he was on his police radio? A. Well, I know he wasn't on his police radio. It was a phone. Q. 'Cause you were on a telephone? A. Yes. Q. And he told you, did he not, that OJ Simpson was somehow involved A. No, sir. He did not. Q. Officer Riske never mentioned to you that O.J. Simpson was A. No, sir. Q. You never heard that from him? A. No, sir, I didn't. Q. And so if he testified to that, he'd be incorrect, true? A. Far as I remember. Q. And then you say you made some notifications, right? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, you were aware that it was believed that one of the victims A. Yes. Q. And you got that from your conversation with Officer Riske? A. That's correct. Q. And if, in fact, you had known that it was Nicole Brown Simpson A. No, sir. Q. What you did was you notified Lieutenant Spangler, correct? A. Not first, but I did. Q. Who did you notify first? A. Detective Ron Phillips. Q. You recall testifying in the criminal trial? A. Yes, sir. Q. Go to page 14448. At page 14448, line 12 let me start at line 11. I "Q. Who did you notify? "A. I made six telephonic notifications to detectives in my command Detective, does that refresh your recollection? A. Yes, sir and I got an answering machine. Q. So the first call you made wasn't to Ron Phillips it was to A. The first notification I made was to Ron Phillips. Q. Okay. That wasn't a notification? A. Not in person. It was a tape machine. Q. Well, none of yours -- strike that. Then you notified, after you A. I believe that's correct, yes. Q. The first person that you tried to get a hold of was Lieutenant A. Yes. Q. Now, then after you got a hold of Ron Phillips, you told him about A. Yes, sir. Q. And you indicated to Detective Ron Phillips that you had what you A. I believe I did, yes. Q. And you told him that because you believed that Nicole Brown A. Yes, sir. Q. And you knew that then? That is when you talked to Ron Phillips. A. Yes, I did. Q. Now, then you phoned Captain Kurth, did you not? A. I believe that's correct, yes. Q. How long were you -- who's Captain Kurth? A. At the time he was the area commanding officer, the captain of the Q. All right. And he was one of the higher-ups that you had to notify A. He would be notified on any homicide, sir. Q. And you indicated to him, did you not, that one of the victims was A. I believe I did, yes. Q. All right. And then you next phoned assistant commanding officer of A. Yes, sir. Q. And after you talked to -- how long were you on the phone to him? A A. Possibly, so, yes. Q. And so Kurth and Bushey approximately three, four minutes, correct? A. Correct. Q. And you found Ron Phillips which when you talked to, he was in bed, A. I don't remember. More than likely. Q. I mean, you're talking -- we're talking after. o'clock in the A. It was around 1 o'clock, yes. Q. And the phone calls and notifications you made to Spangler, A. That is correct. Q. All right. And when you made those toes calls, you then, after you A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, deputy chief Frankel at this time indicated to you that he MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Hearsay. Outside the scope. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. BAKER: On what grounds? THE COURT: Hearsay. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) From that telephone conversation, you were aware A. No, sir. Q. You talked to commander -- I'm sorry you talked to deputy chief A. Yes, possibly, sir. Q. And Detective Frankel gave you an order at 1:15 in the morning to MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Hearsay. Relevance. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) At 1:15 in the morning, you were aware that the case A. No. Q. You did not relay any transfer of the case from 1:15 in the morning MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Hearsay. Relevance. THE COURT: Excuse me. THE COURT: Overruled. You can answer yes or no. THE WITNESS: Would you please repeat the question? MR. BAKER: You were in receipt of an order to transfer the case? THE COURT: I'll sustain the objection. That wasn't the question you Q. (BY MR. BAKER) were aware you were required to transfer the case, A. No, sir. But if you would like me to tell you what Frankel told me, Q. I've been getting objections. THE COURT: Don't look at me. I'm not the one objecting. MR. BAKER: I'm looking at you. You're the one sustaining them. THE COURT: Can't help it. (Laughter.) Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Now, let's talk a little bit about robbery homicide A. Yes. Q. And if robbery homicide division takes over a case, whether it be A. No, sir. Q. They're not to go into the area of the crime scene. They're not to MR. MEDVENE: Improper hypothetical. It's been asked and answered THE COURT: The answer was no. Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Now, is it your testimony, then, that if in fact MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Argumentative. Assumes facts not in evidence. THE COURT: You may lay a foundation. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) That's okay. Now, I want to go back to robbery When robbery homicide takes over a case, they then have authority over A. Yes, sir, that's correct. Q. And in this case, you received -- Strike that. Let me just read what you testified to at the criminal trial. MR. MEDVENE: Objection. It's argument. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. BAKER: On what grounds? THE COURT: Well, you can ask him a question but you can't just read Q. (BY MR. BAKER) You were aware of an order at 1:15 in the morning MR. MEDVENE: Objection. THE WITNESS: That wasn't the order that I received. MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence. THE COURT: You may answer yes or no. MR. BAKER: You want to answer the question? THE WITNESS: Would you ask it again, please, because -- MR. BAKER: May the reporter read it, Your Honor? (The question was read as follows:) "Q. (BY MR. BAKER) You were aware of an order at 1:15 in the morning THE COURT: I'm going to sustain the objection as compound. You may ask Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Did you tell Detective Ron Phillips that the case A. Yes, I did. Q. And as I understand it, Detective Rossi, at that time, what time A. After he had responded to the scene. So it was probably around Q. Okay. Now, you said after robbery homicide responded to the scene A. After he had responded to the scene. Q. Okay. Now, at 1:15 in the morning is when you had the conversation A. At approximately 1:15, yes. Q. And you then left west Los Angeles police station at 1:20? A. Possibly around 1:15, 1:20, yes. Q. So after you talked to Lieutenant Constance Dial, you left the A. Captain Dial. Q. I'm sorry, Captain, I apologize. A. Yes, that's correct. Q. And you drove directly to 875 south Bundy? A. Yes. Q. And when you got to 875 south Bundy, you took the tour of the crime A. Yes, sir. Q. And then you went out front. You went back from the back of the -- A. Yes, sir, at the rear location. Q. Did you talk to him? A. I don't remember if I did or not. Q. But you saw him there? A. Yes. Q. And did he see you? A. I'm sure he did. Q. And there was Officer Coon, Sergeant Coon and Officer Riske, A. Yes, sir. Q. The three of you and Terrazas were all there in the back and opened A. No. The gate was open by Officer Riske and he and I walked down the Q. Which way did he open the gate? A. As I recall, he opened it out. Q. Towards himself? A. That's what I remember, yeah. Q. When I -- when you walk up there to the gate, was the gate in a A. I don't remember. Q. You have no recollection? A. I don't remember what position the gate was in. Q. You don't know if it was open, closed? You do remember that he A. That's possible. I'm not sure. Q. Do you have a recollection? I don't want to put words in your A. I don't have a recollection. Q. All right. Then you walked down the walkway on the north side of A. That's correct. Q. Came back the same way you entered, true? A. True. Q. To the alley portion of the property, correct? A. Yes. Q. And then did you stay there and talk to anybody? A. Not that remember. Q. Exited from there and went directly back down to Dorothy and around A. Yes. Yes, sir. Q. And how long were you there before you talked to anybody else? A. I waited for detectives. Q. You waited for detectives. That would be Phillips and Fuhrman? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, Phillips and Fuhrman arrived approximately when? A. I don't remember exactly. Possibly somewhere between 2 o'clock and Q. And then you did the same thing with them. Took them up to the area A. Yes, sir. Same thing. Q. Now, to your knowledge, had anybody come out of the housing through A. I'm not sure what you mean, sir. Q. Fair enough. To your knowledge, had anybody come out the back of A. No. Q. Garage door was down? A. Open. Q. Was it your understanding the garage door was open when the crime A. I didn't know. Q. Now, after you did that with detective Fuhrman, you hadn't received You hadn't received, all the time you were at the crime scene, you A. Yes, I did. Q. When did you receive communication? A. After I went from the rear to the front and while I was waiting for Q. When you were waiting for the detectives, you received a call from A. Captain Dial arrived and she had a cellular phone and we received a Q. Now, did you receive any communications from deputy chief Frankel A. No, sir. Q. All right. Now, you made this tour with Detectives Fuhrman and A. That's correct. Q. And after they had arrived, you had taken them and seen the MR. MEDVENE: Objection, Your Honor. Beyond the scope the whole area. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: Would you say -- I don't understand what your saying, all Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Both of them enter the house. Q. I'm saying both of them entered the house and they were gone from A. Ron Phillips didn't even enter the house but Mark Fuhrman did. Q. Anybody go with Mark Fuhrman? A. I don't remember, possibly Lieutenant Spangler. I don't remember. Q. As you sit here now, you have no recollection of anybody going in A. Seems like he went with somebody else but I don't remember who. Q. You don't have a recollection of who this somebody else is, right? A. Not exactly, no. Q. And when Mark Fuhrman was in the house for ten or -- ten or 15 A. I never told anyone that, sir. Q. Let me read from your testimony, 14479, starting at line 19. MR. PETROCELLI: Ron, one second. Okay. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) (Reading:) "Q. Now, after Detective Phillips and Fuhrman and Officer Riske all "A. At that point, that is when I had a conversation with Detective Correct? A. That's correct. Q. And you knew that the victim was Nicole Brown Simpson from 12:30 in A. No, I did not. Q. And you didn't testify to that here this afternoon that you knew A. No, I didn't. Q. There. Okay. Now, then, at that point, Phillips and Fuhrman were MR. MEDVENE: Objection, Your Honor. Vague, ambiguous, "off the case." THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) After the phone call by Phillips to RHD they had no MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Assumes a fact not in evidence; lack of THE COURT: Lay a foundation. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Was it your understanding that after the phone call A. That is not my understanding. Q. They still had authority over the crime scene, as far as you were A. Yes. Q. All right. Now, you had knowledge of the chief's order to have them A. Yes. Q. And the chief gave you an order at 1:15 in the morning, and you MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Argumentative. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. BAKER: Page 14567, line 19 -- MR. PETROCELLI: Can you give us that again? MR. BAKER: Sure. 14567, lines 19 through 22. MR. PETROCELLI: One second. MR. BAKER: (Reading from transcript.) "Q. Did she give" -- MR. MEDVENE: Excuse me, Mr. Baker. I don't think it's proper to read this testimony, Your Honor. The THE COURT: I don't think there's a question pending. MR. MEDVENE: I think Mr. Baker is going to purport to read testimony MR. BAKER: All right. Let's start back and see if we can get it. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) The order to have Phillips call robbery/homicide A. What Chief Frankel told me, sir. Q. Can you answer my question yes or no? A. That is not correct, no. Q. And the chief didn't give you an order to have Phillips call A. Gave me some instructions. Q. And those instructions indicated to you that this case was to be A. True, if it was confirmed that the victim was Nicole Simpson. Q. And that had been confirmed to your satisfaction before you ever A. No, sir, that's not correct. Q. All right. So when was it purportedly confirmed to you, Sergeant A. It was never confirmed to me, sir. Q. It was never confirmed. Okay. So regardless of whether it was confirmed to you or not, you then had A. Yes, sir. Q. And that was not until after they had gone through the area where MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Relevance, materiality, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. A. Yes. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) And that's when you decided to relay the information A. After about ten minutes they got there, right. Q. And in that ten minutes -- strike that. Could you have left a message for them at West L.A. that you were You could have done that before you left couldn't you? A. No. MR. MEDVENE: Objection -- Q. (BY MR. BAKER) In fact, you could have called back to West L.A. A. No, sir. MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Argumentative on what the witness could or THE COURT: Sustained. Answer stricken. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Now, you stayed at the crime scene until 4:10 to A. Yes, sir. Q. And until you told Phillips to call RHD, Phillips and Fuhrman were A. Yes, sir. Q. And after you told them to call RHD, they were no longer in charge A. No, sir. Q. That's when -- well, did Fuhrman continue to "detect," if that's a MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Foundation, Your Honor. THE COURT: Well, I'm going to sustain this line of questioning. We Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Now, at 5 o'clock -- strike that. At 4:15, you went -- 4:10 to 4:15, you went back to West L.A.? A. Yes. Q. And you got a hamburger or something on the way back? A. Yes. Q. You were there about 5 o'clock? A. Yes, sir. Q. And that's when you got a call from Phillips? A. Yes. Q. And Phillips wanted the phone number of Mr. Simpson's -- A. Yes. Q. -- residence? A. Yes, sir. Q. You had -- before you ever left West L.A., you had seen both of the A. Are you saying before I left the station? Q. Yes. A. No. Q. You had never seen either of the Simpson children before you left? A. As I recall, I didn't see them until I got back. I may be mistaken. Q. Page 14450, line 17. MR. MEDVENE: Excuse me. Objection. Relevance, materiality, when he saw THE COURT: Sustained. MR. BAKER: Your Honor, I want to be heard on that. THE COURT: Okay. (The following proceedings were held at the bench, with the reporter.) MR. BAKER: Obviously, credibility is always an issue. But he will Further, he was already told by Riske that O.J. Simpson was Sydney's MR. PETROCELLI: It was stricken. MR. MEDVENE: It's way beyond the scope on direct examination, and I THE COURT: Well, what is the relevance? MR. BAKER: The relevance is, as I say, credibility is always an issue. THE COURT: Well, what is the relevance of this witness? I don't know MR. MEDVENE: The relevance of the witness, Your Honor, we're just THE COURT: Sustained. The objection on relevance, I don't see what the (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Is it your testimony, Sergeant Rossi that Officer MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Relevance, materiality. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Did you ever see Mark Fuhrman pick up a glove at the A. No, sir. Q. Did you ever see anybody move the glove at the crime scene? A. No, sir. Q. Did you ever see anybody move the envelope at the crime scene? A. No. Q. After the notification to RHD, did you ever see Fuhrman or Phillips A. No, I didn't. Q. Did Fuhrman, when you saw him go into the residence, stay in the A. Did he stay in the residence? MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Vague; ambiguous in terms of time. MR. BAKER: I'll be happy to rephrase it. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) You made your own tour of the crime scene with A. Yes, sir. Q. Then you waited until Mark Fuhrman and Ron Phillips to get the A. That's correct. Q. And you watched Mark Fuhrman go into the house? A. Through the garage, yes, sir. Q. Did you ever see him come out? A. I believe I did. Q. How long was he in there? A. I don't remember. Short period of time. Q. Ten to fifteen minutes? A. I don't think it was that long. Q. But you saw him come out? A. I believe I did. Q. Did you see Lieutenant Spangler go into the house while you were A. No. MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Relevance, materiality, and the outside the THE COURT: Sustained. MR. BAKER: On which ground? THE COURT: Both. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Well, did you ever see Spangler come out of the MR. MEDVENE: Same objection. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. BAKER: Your Honor, I want to be heard again? I'm sorry. THE COURT: Okay. (The following proceedings were held at the bench, with the reporter.) MR. BAKER: One of the assertions is that Fuhrman was within the THE COURT: There is no testimony or evidence that any glove was MR. BAKER: Judge, your ruling precludes me from showing that they went THE COURT: Was there any evidence that there was blood in there? MR. BAKER: I don't have any evidence that there was blood or wasn't Now, I think the fact that the glove could have been in there -- I THE COURT: I'm going to sustain the objection. (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Now, when you saw Detective Fuhrman, when you met A. I don't believe he did, sir. Q. When you were in the back, is it your testimony that the whole time A. I don't remember if he put one on. Q. Do you have any recollection of him going to get a duty coat and A. No, sir, I don't. Q. And your recollection is, when he got out of the car, he didn't A. As far as I remember, yes. Q. Now, did you see Detective Roberts at any time when you were at the A. No, sir. Q. Did you see Detective Roberts at any time at the crime scene? A. Front of the house, yes, sir. Q. When did you first see Detective Roberts? MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Beyond the scope of direct, Your Honor. THE COURT: You may answer. Go ahead. A. I saw Detective Roberts after I had come -- or returned to the Q. (BY MR. BAKER) From your initial trip? A. No, sir, from the the second trip, the trip with the two Q. About 2:30, 2:40? A. That would possibly be very close. Q. You ever see them again? A. Well, he was there. Q. Did you ever see him at the scene again? Was he there the whole A. Yes, he was. Q. And you saw him just before you left the scene at 4:15, correct? A. I don't remember if I saw him then, sir. Q. You have a recollection of the last time you saw him? A. No, I don't. Q. How many officers were at the scene when you left between 4:10 and A. Several. I don't remember how many, sir. Q. In excess of 20? A. Not that many. Q. Fifteen, twenty? A. Excuse me. You mean uniformed officers? Q. No. A. Anybody? Q. Anybody employed by LAPD. A. I would say less than 20. Q. And were the two most senior people at the time you left, Vanatter A. I did not see Vannatter, but Lange was there. Q. So Lange got there before Vannatter? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you have known Lange from before? A. No, sir. Q. You met him that night? A. Didn't meet him, saw him. Q. And somebody told you that was Lange? A. I knew it was. Q. All right. And then the next, before RHD became involved in the A. Detective Spangler. Actually, he's a lieutenant. Q. In charge of the actual detective work at the crime scene, you'd A. Yes. MR. BAKER: I don't have anything further at this time. MR. MEDVENE: If the Court please, there's one exhibit we want to get (Counsel displays large poster board.) REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MEDVENE: Q. I put on the board, Detective Rossi, what's been marked as MR. BAKER: Beyond the scope. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. MEDVENE: May we be heard? THE COURT: All right. MR. MEDVENE: Mr. Baker, in his questioning, implied that there was Mr. Baker asked him if there were any photographs taken on June 13, as We want to show him the board, which has both photographs taken June THE COURT: I don't even understand what you said. MR. MEDVENE: What we said was, Your Honor, that when Mr. Baker And we want to show the witness a picture that was taken June 13 and THE COURT: Have you a picture of the same scene taken on the 13th? MR. MEDVENE: Yes, sir. And we have a blowup. THE COURT: Let me see it. MR. MEDVENE: You want to see it? THE COURT: Yeah. (Pause in the proceedings.) MR. MEDVENE: These pictures that were on the board are Exhibit 719. One of the close-ups that we have on the board purports to show a spot MR. BAKER: Your Honor, if we do this -- MR. MEDVENE: I'm not saying it clearly enough. The pictures that I have as 719 were taken June 13. The one in the MR. BAKER: Your Honor, I'll be -- if we do this -- THE COURT: Here excuse me. MR. BAKER: If this is allowed I get it under . So we can do it THE COURT: I don't understand the point that you're trying to get MR. MEDVENE: The point that we're trying to get across is, this blood THE COURT: Your hand is covering the transmitter. MR. MEDVENE: Sorry, Your Honor. The point we're trying to get across is, a blood spot appears on the THE COURT: Is this exhibit stipulated to? MR. MEDVENE: I believe it is. I have to look, but I believe it is. THE COURT: Okay. We're adjourned to 8:30 tomorrow. Don't talk about the case. Don't form or express any opinions. Let me remind you: Do not allow yourself to be influenced by any All right. See you tomorrow, 8:30. MR. MEDVENE: Judge, if the Court please, if you want to hold the jury THE COURT: Just a minute, for Mr. Baker. MR. MEDVENE: If the Court please, what we can do is, do it with THE COURT: Okay. I just excused the jury. MR. BAKER: Excuse them for the evening. I don't want to excuse him yet. (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of THE COURT: You're ordered to return tomorrow at 8:30. (At 4:31 p.m., an adjournment was taken until Tuesday, October 29,
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