|
REPORTER'S DAILY TRANSCRIPT SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA SHARON RUFO, ET AL., N/A, PLAINTIFFS, VS. ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, ET AL., DEFENDANTS.
SANTA MONICA, CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT NO. WEQ (REGINA D. CHAVEZ, OFFICIAL REPORTER) (The jurors resumed their respective seats.) THE COURT: Morning. JURORS: Morning Your Honor. THE COURT: You may proceed. MR. PETROCELLI: Thank you, Your Honor. THE CLERK: You are still under oath. Would you please state your name again for the record. THE WITNESS: Orenthal James Simpson. ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, the witness on the stand at the time of adjournment on MR. PETROCELLI: Morning, ladies and gentlemen. JURORS: Morning. DIRECT EXAMINATION (continued) BY MR. PETROCELLI: Q. On Friday, we were talking about your activities on June 12, 1994. I'd like Before you went to McDonald's with Mr. Kaelin, you tried calling Paula Barbieri MR. BAKER: Asked and answered. THE COURT: Overruled. A. I may have. Yes. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) And you called not from your cell phone, but from your A. I may have. Q. You say you may have. What does that mean? Did you or didn't you? A. I don't recall doing it, but I do know that I put some calls in to Paula, Q. And you called her again at 8:58 p.m. correct? A. I may have. Q. And you called her at 8:59 p.m., correct? A. I may have. Q. And you checked your messages a second time from your house, by calling your A. I never picked up a message from Paula that night, no. Q. You did check your messages at 6:50, and again at 8:55 p.m. to pick up MR. BAKER: Asked and answered. THE COURT: Overruled. A. I don't recall doing that, no. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Do you recall? Are you unsure now, sir, or -- A. I know I never picked up any messages from Paula. Q. You told Dr. Lenore Walker you picked up a message from Paula, didn't you? A. No. MR. PETROCELLI: Let me put up the board. This is? MR. FOSTER: 434. MR. PETROCELLI: Exhibit 434, which is a listing of your cell phone calls. (The instrument herein referred to as Board entitled Defendant's Cell Phone MR. PETROCELLI: And I'll also put up this other exhibit. (Exhibit 2216 displayed, entitled Simpson Telephone Calls - June 12, 1994.) MR. PETROCELLI: This is Exhibit 2216, which would show all the calls you made Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, you have this voice mail system on your cell phone; A. I believe so, yes. Q. Okay. And you see Exhibit 434 shows that you called your message manager at 6:56 for A. I see -- I don't see where it says pick up message. I do see it's message Q. You do see 6:56 message manager, true? A. Yes. Q. And you also see it again 8:55, message manager, true? A. Yes. Q. And CF stands for call forward, right, on your bill? A. I would assume so, yes. Q. And the reason those entries are on your bill is because you twice picked up A. That's untrue. Q. Okay. MR. PETROCELLI: Put up -- what is that exhibit? MR. FOSTER: 2217. THE COURT: 2217. (Exhibit 2217 displayed on TV screen.) Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, sir, I already showed you the entry for 1856. At A. Yes. Q. You see the phone record there, 6:56 from your telephone number, 476-4619, A. I believe so, yes. Q. Okay. And at 2055 -- that would be 8:55 p.m., right, sir? A. I would assume so. Q. Shows another call from your home phone, and your cell phone indicates 8:55, A. Yes, I see that. Q. Do you see that? A. Um-hum. Q. And by the way, do you also see that you called at 8:58 and 8:59, the number A. That's correct. Q. Okay. So you made all those phone calls at the time shown on these cell phone A. I would assume so, yes. Q. You'd include picking up messages from Paula, true? A. That's incorrect. Q. And you told that to Dr. Lenore Walker, didn't you? MR. BAKER: Asked and answered. THE COURT: Overruled. A. Incorrect. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Did you not tell Dr. Lenore Walker, on February 25, A. Yes. Q. You saw her taking notes, right? A. Yes. Q. And she was working for you at the time, right? A. I believe the defense, yes. Q. "Called Paula, not home. "Call forward on car phone message from Paula. Whole long message about golf. You told all of that to Dr. Lenore Walker, didn't you, sir? A. That's correct. Q. And you told Dr. Lenore Walker that you got a whole long message about golf A. That's untrue. Q. You also told Dr. Lenore Walker that just about that time, Kato walked by, A. I assume so. Q. And Kato walked by your house about 6:56 p.m. after you got back from the A. I know after I was back from the recital, Kato came in. Q. In fact, you testified in this courtroom on Friday, that it was exactly at A. No, I didn't say exactly. I said about that time. It was about the time I Q. Now, you deny under oath, after looking at these cell phone records and A. That's correct. MR. BAKER: I -- Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You deny that? A. I deny I didn't pick it up on that cell phone; that's correct. Q. Your story is that you -- MR. BAKER: I object to that. MR. PETROCELLI: -- you -- MR. BAKER: I object to anything calling "your story." THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Your story, sir, is that you -- well, by the way, back You told the police, as we discussed Friday, that you picked up a message -- A. I believe so. Q. And at the time you told that to the police, hours after -- that was hours A. I assume so. Q. Before you had met with teams of lawyers and investigators and defense A. That's correct. Q. And before you had reviewed cell phone records, right? A. Correct. Q. And you told the police that you picked up -- you said: "I checked my messages. She had left me a message that she wasn't there, that And you were referring to the message that you picked up on your cell phone A. Untrue. Q. Now, your story, sir, told in your deposition earlier this year, is that, A. Yes. Q. And just like when you call my house and I say we're not home right now, MR. BAKER: He wouldn't call your house. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) That sort of message? A. That's correct. Q. You want to tell this jury under oath, that when you called Paula's machine, MR. BAKER: Compound. A. That's -- that's incorrect. Q. There was a whole long message on your (sic) machine directed to you; is A. I believe it was directed more to me, but it wasn't about golf, no. Q. But anybody could listen to it, right? A. Yes. Q. And it's all about you, right? A. No, it was about her being out of town. Q. So when Lenore Walker wrote in her notes, a whole long message about golf, A. That's -- Q. False? A. Yes, it's false, yes. Q. Is it true that you and Paula had been fighting a bit about golf, sore A. Not then, no. That's incorrect. Q. You fought in Palm Springs about it, didn't you? Mr. Baker pointed that out in her deposition? A. Previously, Paula would get upset when I went and played a lot of golf, yes. Q. Including the morning of June 12? A. No. Q. You didn't spend the night together and you're going to play golf in the MR. BAKER: I don't know what question you want him to answer; they're all THE COURT: Ask one please. THE WITNESS: Can you reask it. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) The subject of golf was a sore one at that point in A. I can't answer that true or untrue. When Paula, often -- me playing golf was Q. Now, the truth of the matter, sir, is that you were desperate to get in A. False. Q. And you were trying all day to get in touch with her, call after call, after A. That's not necessarily true, no. Q. And there are more calls, local calls not reflected on these records, that A. I wouldn't know. I tried her in my car and I tried her a few times from my Q. And the reason you were trying to get in touch with her is because you were A. That's not true. Q. You told that to Tom Lange on the 17th of June, from your (sic) Bronco, that A. That's not true. Q. Well, we'll get to that. And you blamed Nicole for feeling alone, sir, didn't you? A. No. Q. You blamed Nicole because your relationship with Nicole was over, true? MR. BAKER: There's no foundation. A. It had been over for a month. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) And had been over for how long? A. About a month. Q. About three weeks, to be exact, as of the 12th of June, true? A. It officially -- when I looked at a calendar later on, it was Mother's Day. Q. About three weeks to the day, to June 12, not about a month; about three A. I know when we officially split was the 12th -- the 10th or the 12th. Q. You told the police on June 13, that you and Nicole split three weeks before A. If I said -- I did say that, but I was just approximating. Q. You did say three weeks, right? A. Yes. Q. You said it more than once, didn't you? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And three weeks from June 13 does -- is not May 10, but May 22, correct? A. I would assume about that, 21 days. Q. And finally, you blamed Nicole because your relationship with Paula was now A. I can't answer that. You say "now all messed up," which I don't understand. Q. Evening of June 12, 9 o'clock p.m. to be exact, you blamed Paula because -- A. No, I didn't believe that. Q. You blame Nicole for your problems with Paula? A. Nicole was a problem with Paula. Q. Now, we've already talked about going to McDonald's, not going to get back When you went out to McDonald's, from your house, you went out the front door A. I thought I did, even though I heard Kato. I thought I did, yes. Q. And you told that to Lenore Walker on February 25, 1995, that you went out A. I thought I did. Q. Okay. Now, and by the way, when you went to Kato's room that night to go out and get A. Yes. Q. And you made a point of telling him you were going out, right? A. I told him why I needed change, yes. Q. You told him you were going out to get a burger, right? A. Yes. Q. And you never once before this point in time go to Kato Kaelin's room to A. And I didn't that night. That was not my purpose. Q. But you never went to Kato's room on any other occasion and told him you A. True. Q. This was the very first time in your life you went to Kaelin's room and said A. True. Q. Now, when you got back from McDonald's, you made a call, another call, your A. That's correct. Q. And you're leaving her messages in a number of those calls, aren't you? A. I think I may have left her -- I'm pretty sure I left her one early on and Q. Page 8, 9, 12 through 13. I want to talk about this 10:03 time period now. A. Yes. Q. When you spoke to the police detectives on June 13, hours after Nicole's True? A. I don't think that was the 10:03 call. I believe that we were talking about Q. Excuse me, sir. Answer this question: When you spoke to the police on June 13, hours after A. Yes. Q. -- you told the police that you, after the recital -- A. Okay. Q. -- made a phone call while driving over to Paula's looking for her, from A. I don't think I said from my Bronco, but I did imply that I was driving to Q. You implied it or you said it? A. I don't recall but I know it was implied. Q. Let me read it to you. Page 8. (Reading.) "Q. Where did you go from there, the recital?" MR. PETROCELLI: I'm going to skip at the judge's request the "ums" and Mr. Baker, I'm at page 8. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) (Reading.) "Where did you go from there, O.J.? "Home. Home for a while and got in my car for a while, tried to find my Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Again, page 9. (Reading.) "After the recital you're referring to? "I came home, and then I called Paula as I was going to her house and Paula MR. PETROCELLI: Page 12 and 13. MR. BAKER: Well, that -- read the questions and the answers. MR. PETROCELLI: I was trying to shorten it up. If you want me to read the Okay. Let's start at page 12. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) (Reading.) "QUESTION" -- MR. BAKER: Can you give me a line, please. MR. PETROCELLI: Yeah. We'll start it at line 23, referring to did he take it to Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) (Reading.) "Did you take it to the recital? "A. No. "Q. What time was the recital? "A. Over at about 6:30. Like I said, I came home, I got in my car, I was going to see my girlfriend, I "Q. So you drove the -- "A. Bronco. "Q. You got home in the Rolls, in the Rolls -- "Yeah. "Q. And then you got in the Bronco? "A. Bronco, 'cause my phone was in the Bronco. "Okay. "A. And cause it's -- the Bronco is -- the Bronco is what I drive. "Yeah. You know, I drive -- rather drive it than any other car. And as I was going over there I called her a couple of times, and she wasn't Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You told the police you drove to Paula's after the A. True. Q. The only time after the recital that you have any cell phone calls to Paula A. 10:03. Q. So, sir, you were in your Bronco calling Paula at 10:03, just like you told A. That's incorrect. Q. Oh, so you lied to the police? A. No. Q. You have a different story now. It's different now, isn't it? A. I think it's more accurate now. Q. It's different, isn't it? A. Yes. Q. It's -- now you say you didn't get in the Bronco, and drive to Paula's, and A. That's true. Q. That's what you now say, true? A. That's true. Q. Okay. And you now say that of course after meeting with teams of lawyers and A. True. Q. And by the way, at the time you gave your statement to the police, you were A. I don't understand what you mean. Q. Well, you testified in your deposition, line -- at page 2144, that the cell A. Yes. Q. Okay. A. But I understand cell phone records. Q. Now you do? A. I always have. Q. You also told the police, sir -- well, withdrawn. So your story now, then, is that you didn't make this call from the Bronco, A. That's correct. MR. BAKER: Objection, argumentative. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) And your story -- MR. BAKER: I object to the form of the question. It's argumentative. THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) And your story now, sir, is that, in fact, your cell A. That's correct. Q. You're now saying that you took it out of the Bronco hours before? A. That's correct. Q. Let me read what you told to the police about that subject. One second so I can get the page number for your counsel. Here it is. Page 15, at line 22. (Reading.) "Q. "Do you recall bleeding at all in your truck -- in the Bronco? "A. I recall bleeding at my house and then I went to the Bronco. The last thing I did before I left, when I was rushing, was went and got my Remember saying that to the police? A. I don't think that's complete. (Counsel hands document to witness.) Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Do you remember saying that to the police, yes or no? A. I remember saying that and more to the police. Q. You think this transcript is wrong, is that what you're saying? A. I know it is. Q. Had no problem with it on Friday, did you? MR. BAKER: That's argumentative, Your Honor. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You told the police that the last thing you did, sir, A. That's incorrect. Q. Now you're saying the police statement is wrong because you don't want the MR. BAKER: That's argumentative. A. It wasn't in the Bronco. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You don't want it to be there because if it was there at MR. BAKER: All that is alibi. It's great final argument and great sound bites, MR. PETROCELLI: No speaking objections. MR. BAKER: I don't take legal advice from any adversaries. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) What is your story now? By the way, on this, you didn't MR. BAKER: Your Honor, this "what your story now" is so argumentative and I THE COURT: Overruled. A. My cell phone comes with attachments, extra batteries, there's a little case I believe if you got the correct -- if you listen to the tape, and not your -- Q. Sir, I asked you on Friday if what was recorded on the tape was accurate and A. No. What was on the tape is accurate, but they don't have the whole thing. Q. Now you're saying you didn't get the cell phone when you were leaving for A. Yes. Q. That's what you're saying? A. Yes. My cell phone comes in a package and I need the package when I travel. Q. So you specifically remember now, two and a half years later, that it wasn't A. I don't -- I don't get the question. I remember that -- Q. You specifically remember your phone was not in the Bronco at 10:03, A. Correct. Q. And you remember -- and you remember that it was accessories, and that's A. Yes. Q. Okay. Let me read what you said at page 16 of your police statement, line 22. I'll "Q. So did you do anything -- when did you put the band-aid on it? "A. Actually, I asked a girl this morning for it and she -- "And she got it? "Yeah. "Okay. "A. 'Cause last night I just put -- I mean when Kato -- When I was leaving he Q. Remember telling that to the police? A. I don't remember telling them, but I read the transcripts. MR. PETROCELLI: Put this on the Elmo, Steve. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Let me ask you about this. MR. PETROCELLI: Put that on the Elmo. (Transcript displayed on Elmo.) MR. PETROCELLI: I want to focus on this. Can you do a little better on that? Back, back. Okay. Right there. Move it over. Okay, can you see that? (indicating to TV screen.) THE WITNESS: Yes. Q. First of all, you're clear in your mind, sir, that the time frame you are A. Correct. Q. And you told the police, I was rushing to get my phone and put a little A. Correct. Q. And earlier you said the last thing you did when you were talking to the A. That's what I said, yes. MR. PETROCELLI: Okay, you can take it off. Q. You were calling Paula, driving in your Bronco to Bundy, calling Paula A. Untrue. MR. BAKER: Argumentative, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. A. Untrue. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You'd have no other reason for calling Paula at 10:03 MR. BAKER: Argumentative. Q. Did you not call Paula all day long starting about 2:12, with your phone MR. BAKER: Argumentative, vague, ambiguous, asked and answered. A. I called -- THE COURT: Overruled. A. I called Paula a few times that day, yes. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) And you knew that she was gone? A. No. Q. Right? A. Not really, no. Q. You told Lenore Walker that's Las Vegas or Arizona. I just read in her notes A. Among other things, yes. Q. So you knew Paula wasn't home? A. No. Q. You were desperately trying to get in touch with her, weren't you? A. I wouldn't have called if I didn't think she might have been around. Q. What your reason, your story, now, sir, is you were looking for a ride to A. That if she was still in town, that it was still not too late for her to Q. You knew a limo had been arranged by your secretary, Cathy Randa, to be at A. Yes. Q. So -- so now you say that you made the phone call standing from where, sir, A. I was in my front yard near -- if you have a picture of my front yard -- Q. Before I show you the front yard, how many phone calls did you make on your A. This would have been the only one. Q. So every other time you used your cell phone that day, 2:12, 2:13, 2:18, A. One ride from the golf course in from the Bronco. Q. Where your cell phone was? A. Yes. Q. And it was still in the car in fact when you came home from the golf course? A. That's right. Q. It was still in your car when you were at the recital, weren't you? A. That's correct. Q. Yes. You remember when you say you took it out of the car, the phone out of A. Yes. Q. When do you say, between like 7:30 and 9, thereabouts? MR. BAKER: Argumentative -- A. Correct. MR. BAKER: -- when do you say. THE COURT: Overruled. Q. The only call you would like this jury to believe that you made from your MR. BAKER: Argumentative. A. That's correct. THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Okay. So let's go to the story that you told in your deposition in this case. (Referring to Exhibit 116) Q. You said you pulled your Bronco in to get some stuff out of it, right? A. Yes. Q. And by the way, the first time you pulled it in, you just took out your golf A. My golf clubs, my cell phone, Q. Cell phone? Sure about that? A. Yes, that was about that time that I took it out. Q. Okay. And you didn't take out the cell phone accessories, did you? A. No, I didn't look for it. Q. Just looked for it -- it was right there in the passenger seat. A. Well, I didn't look for it. Q. What do you mean? It was right there in the passenger seat; how could you A. I didn't look for it. Q. Okay. So you just get the phone out. And by the way, the phone was just by the A. That's correct. Q. You took one, but not the cell phone accessories? A. That's correct. Q. You left the Windbreaker there too, that was over the console, right? A. That's incorrect. Q. Okay. You didn't take the Windbreaker out at this time, did you? A. No. Q. So you just took out the -- the phone and your clubs, right? A. That's correct. Q. And you went inside, did a little stuff, and you parked your car, and you MR. BAKER: Objection. Argumentative, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Prior to around 9 p.m. on Rockingham, right? A. That's correct. Q. You had to make a couple of other trips out to that car that night to get A. I think I looked out there one other time. Q. Well, you looked there for a club, once, right? A. Yes. Q. And then you went out there to get your accessories, right? A. Yes. Q. And you're sore-legged, stiff that night, want to cut down your walking A. Yes. Q. That's why you took the short distance to the Bentley, because you didn't A. Not necessarily, no. Q. That's what you said on Friday; you were stiff-legged, that's why you took A. I took the closest car. Q. And you said you were stiff-legged. Do you want me to read it? MR. BAKER: Yes. MR. PETROCELLI: Can you find it? Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Said you were sore and stiff, right? A. I was. Q. Okay. A. All day. Q. All day. And you wanted to take the shortest car, right? A. I just took -- Q. Shortest distance? A. I just took the closest car when I came out of my house. Q. But you made a lot of trips to that Bronco that night, didn't you? A. I believe two. Q. And you had to walk out and get it, too, right? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Now, when you got the phone, you said you put it in your kitchen, right? A. Somewhere in my kitchen. Q. Okay. Now -- A. Where I normally put it. Q. It's around 10 o'clock, it's after McDonald's, and you're getting closer to A. No, that wasn't my purpose at all. Q. That's what you did, right? A. Among the things I did. I hit four or five balls, yes. Q. Yeah, and as you were going out to the garage to do this and to look for A. I don't think it worked that way. As I said, I wasn't clear if I picked it Q. And just so we -- just to satisfy your counsel's request, at page 219, line "A. I decided to drive the car that was closest when I walked out the door. I A. Yes. Q. "As I'm sure Kato will tell you. And I just took the nearest car when I Let's get back to where we were. You went and got this phone from the kitchen so that you could go outside and A. Yeah. I -- I -- Yes, I did pick up the phone, either before I went in the garage, or I came out Q. You're not sure about which one, but one thing you will swear on your oath, A. I went outside, yes. Q. Are you absolutely positive that you went in the house at some time -- at 10 A. Yes. Q. Okay. And you remember that, don't you? A. Yes. Q. So then you go outside and you tried to call Paula, right? A. Yes. Q. Well, let me ask you something: How many phones do you have in your house, A. A lot. Q. You have a phone in your kitchen? A. Yes. Q. You have a phone in the kitchen, where the cell phone was? A. Near it, yes. Q. You could have used that phone, couldn't you? You could have gone into the house, say, you know, what -- instead of getting You could have done that, couldn't you? A. I could have. Q. And you didn't, did you? A. I often don't. Q. Who's talking about often? I'm talking about this night. You didn't do it this night? MR. BAKER: This is argumentative. A. That's correct. THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) And you decided to use -- pay more money on your cell A. Do it all the time. Q. Accept you do it all the time. But you didn't do it all the time that day, did you? A. No. Q. The only time you did it that day, right? A. Yes. Q. Now, when you went outside, you made this -- supposedly made this call from You also say that you -- well, why don't you tell us what you did? Go ahead, A. I grabbed a 3 wood. Q. Give us as much detail as you can. A. As I can. And this is as much detail as I can recall. I grabbed a 3 wood, and I looked at the face of it and I swung it a bit. And I I was on the road and I didn't like the sand wedge that came to it, so I was And I also needed some balls that I play with, a ball called a Maxflite 100HT. Since I had, I believe, a sleeve of this ball, and I normally play two sleeves I looked in my trunk, where I had a bunch of balls, and I tried to find I got a windbreaker and put it aside, and whatever was in my trunk, and I And in any event, I chipped those balls. I sculled one; it hit my playground Then I hit -- I mean, I hit a ball over into my neighbor's yard, put that club My dog had come out. And in that time, as I said, I put that call in to Paula, I came to -- I -- I can't recall if I went in to the front door then or the Q. Now, Mr. Simpson, if I asked you to repeat that, you could do it word for A. I -- I may be able to come relatively close to that. Q. You memorized this story, haven't you? A. I recall, to the best of my ability, what I said. Q. You memorized it, have you not? You've sat -- MR. BAKER: Objection. Q. You've sat down, rehearsed it and memorized it? MR. BAKER: Argumentative, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. A. I don't think I've ever rehearsed it. I told the story before -- Q. And you've had lawyers come down from San Francisco and cross-examine you in A. I don't -- I had some lawyers come from San Francisco. What we did, I think, Q. That's for the Judge to decide, not you, Mr. Simpson. You had lawyers subject you to practice rounds to get it right -- MR. BAKER: I object Your Honor. Q. -- didn't you? MR. BAKER: I object. That's immaterial and it's also privileged if it ever Q. These are not -- THE COURT: Practice rounds are not privileged. MR. BAKER: I'm sorry? THE COURT: Practice rounds are not privileged. MR. BAKER: Practice rounds? May we have a hearing on this, Your Honor? THE COURT: No. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Answer the question, sir. A. I had lawyers come down. I don't know I wouldn't characterize practice Q. You don't mean went through with -- these weren't your lawyers. THE COURT: We're not going into the subject. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) No. But these were not lawyers representing you at any MR. BAKER: I object to this. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) These were people you never met before that came out and MR. BAKER: I object to this, Your Honor. MR. PETROCELLI: They're not his attorneys, Your Honor. MR. BAKER: That's an assertion that is made by Mr. Petrocelli, without any Q. Answer the last question. MR. BAKER: Object to him answering any questions about this. THE COURT: Last question overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Go ahead. MR. BAKER: Doesn't the privilege apply in this courtroom to my client? THE COURT: That portion is not privileged. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Please answer the question after the reporter reads it MR. BAKER: I wish the Evidence Code applied in here. MR. PETROCELLI: I would object to these kinds of comments in front of the jury. THE COURT: Read the question back. THE COURT REPORTER: (READING) "Q. And you've had lawyers come down from San Francisco and cross-examine you THE COURT: That isn't the question. MR. PETROCELLI: I'll ask it again. You had lawyers come down from San Francisco who you never met before, to MR. BAKER: I object. There's no time frame. There's nothing in this -- if it THE COURT: That is overruled. MR. PETROCELLI: Answer the question. A. I had lawyers come down whom I paid, so they were my lawyers when they got Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Did they cross-examine you about this story here? THE COURT: Sustain the objection to that. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Okay. Let's move on. Now, by the way, this whole story that you just told was in rather MR. BAKER: Your Honor, I object. I object to this nonsense, Mr. Petrocelli MR. PETROCELLI: You would agree -- MR. BAKER: I want -- THE COURT: Excuse me. MR. BAKER: -- want a ruling on that. THE COURT: I'll sustain the objection. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You would agree that you have quite an extraordinary A. I wouldn't characterize it as extraordinary, no. Q. Pretty detailed, right? A. That as best as I can recall, I told the jury. Q. And you didn't tell the police any of those details, did you, sir? A. I told the police -- I answered every question the police asked me. Q. Did you tell the police about chipping golf balls? MR. BAKER: I object, Your Honor. That assumes that the police asked him about THE COURT: Overruled. A. I don't believe the police asked me -- Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) I didn't ask you if they -- A. -- about what happened after I came back from -- Q. Excuse me, Mr. Simpson. I only asked you if you ever told the police, for MR. BAKER: That assumes that there is a question asking that. And to assert THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Please -- THE COURT: Answer the question. A. No. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) I want the question back. I'm going to ask it again, so Did you, on June 13, hours after Nicole's death, tell the police that you had MR. BAKER: I object to it again. THE COURT: Overruled. Answer it. A. No. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Did you tell the police, hours after Nicole's death, A. No. Q. Did you tell the police that you made a phone call to Paula at 10:03 from A. No. Q. Did you tell the police anything about 3 woods and 4 woods and any of that A. No. Q. Did you tell the police anything about what light you turned on and off as A. No. Q. And you told that story in your deposition, after you heard all the A. I think my deposition was after all of that. MR. BAKER: Argumentative, compound. THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You knew exactly what you had to say to meet and defeat MR. BAKER: Great sound bite. Horribly argumentative. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) If he has a legal objection, make it. But this stuff THE COURT: Excuse me? MR. BAKER: This is showboating. Right there is showboating. THE COURT: Excuse me. That answer is overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Please repeat the question. THE COURT: I'm sorry. I'll sustain that objection. Ask a question without arguing it, please. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Okay. Now -- now, you -- what time did you take this walk, by the way, when you went A. The only -- well, obviously if 10:03 was a phone call, it was approximately Q. Well, tell me exactly when it was, as best as you can recall. You were outside the property on June 12, 1994? A. I couldn't tell you exactly. I would say sometime between 10:00. And if the Q. Well, let's get this clear. First of all, when you went outside the property to take the dog for a walk or A. That's not why I went outside the property. Q. You went out to look in the car? A. Yeah. I looked in the back to see if there were any clubs. I didn't see any Q. You didn't open the car, did you? A. No, I don't believe so. Q. When you walked out to Rockingham and looked inside the Bronco, had you A. To the best of my memory, I did. Q. When you went out on Rockingham, looked in the car, then you were -- then, A. As you asked the question, I may have made the call outside there, but my Q. Now, you're not sure whether it was the driveway or the street? A. Well, I -- Q. Yes or no? A. All along the same time. I was walking, so it could have been while I was Q. Excuse me. Where did you make the call from, the driveway or the street? A. I'm pretty sure it was the driveway, but it could have been as I went out I mean, with all -- it was all a matter of minutes, seconds. Q. Let's talk about the time you were outside here. You went along Rockingham north, and then you turned what, right on Ashford? A. Yes. Q. Then you came in the Ashford gate, right? A. Yes. Q. Okay. You go anywhere else? A. No. Q. Now, tell me the time that you were on Rockingham and Ashford, outside your A. What do you mean, "the time?" Q. The interval of time, was it 10:00 to 10:15? Was it 10:00 to 10:30? Was it 10:45? Was it 9:30? When was it, sir? A. All of this took place sometime, evidently, right before 10:00. I remember my thought process was, there was still time. If Paula was there, Q. So what time did you roll into the Ashford Street gate, there? A. If I -- I mean, I'm guessing now. Q. Don't guess. A. You want me to guess? Q. No, I want you to give us your best recollection sir. A. I would be guessing. Q. You don't know? A. You don't want me to guess. I guess -- I would say 10:15, maybe. Q. That's a guess? A. That's a guess. Q. It could have been 10:30? A. No. Q. How do you know it couldn't have been? You just said you were guessing. A. I went upstairs. I recall having a little time before the limo driver would My limo drivers always call me 15 minutes before the call time, and that Q. It could have been 10:25 that you entered that Ashford Street gate; true or A. No, it was no later than 10:15. At the worse, it would have been 10:15 to Q. But you were just -- you're just guessing at these times? A. I'm not saying exactly what time I got in or the time when I came out of the And I can -- I can recall thinking that Paula had time to come, and I can Q. So, sir, it's absolutely crystal clear in your mind, as you sit here and Is that absolutely crystal clear in your mind? Yes or no? A. Yes. Q. And the reason it is, is because you know that Allan Park is sitting out MR. BAKER: Argumentative, Your Honor. THE COURT: Sustained. A. If I would have been there at that time -- MR. BAKER: It was sustained, Mr. Simpson. O.J., it's sustained. A. I'm sorry. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) When you first put yourself out there in that street MR. BAKER: Argumentative. THE COURT: Overruled. A. I'm sorry? Q. When you first testified? A. Testified? Q. Testified. A. Okay. Q. You had already heard the testimony of Allan Park that he was out there at A. Correct. Q. Also, sir, you also heard the testimony of a man named Charles Cale, that he A. Yes. MR. BAKER: I'm going to object. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You heard the testimony he was there between 9:30 and MR. BAKER: I object. This all calls for hearsay. This is not proper THE COURT: Overruled. A. Yes. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, are you sure, sir, that you weren't out in this A. Yes. Q. You're sure, right? A. Yes. I'm sorry, when -- you said 9:30? Q. To 9:45. A. 9:30? Q. Yeah, 9:30 p.m. to 9:45, aren't you sure you weren't doing your little A. I think 9:30 I may have been driving back from McDonald's. Q. Okay. So you're back by 9:35, right? A. Yeah. Q. Okay. So between 9:35 and 9:45, you sure you're not out there on the street? A. Yes. Q. So you can definitively tell this jury that when you were outside that A. Yes. Q. And you can definitively tell this jury that you went inside the property A. Yes. Q. And that has nothing to do with the fact that those witnesses testified, in MR. BAKER: I object. This is argumentative. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) By the way, you testified at your deposition that the Remember that testimony? A. No, I don't remember if that's the only time I looked at a clock, but I do Q. Well, you -- A. Yeah, for sure, that I looked at a clock. Q. Well, you don't recall looking at clocks while you were going outside your A. No. Q. Okay. MR. PETROCELLI: Okay. Now, I'm going to start -- THE COURT: All right. 10-minute recess. Ladies and gentlemen, don't talk about the case, don't form or express any (Recess.) (Jurors resumed their respective seats.) THE COURT: You may proceed. MR. PETROCELLI: Thank you, Your Honor. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Before the break, Mr. Simpson, we had talked about your Do you recall when I asked you questions about that? A. Yes. Q. You recall that you said that there was something on the tape that indicated A. Yes. Q. Well, we're now going to play the tape, okay, at this part of the statement MR. PETROCELLI: It is Exhibit, for the record -- MR. FOSTER: 782. MR. PETROCELLI: 782. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) This is the portion at page 15 we were talking about A. I want to make a correction. I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I said it was more to it than that. Q. Excuse me. There's no question pending. MR. BAKER: Further, it is not -- MR. PETROCELLI: Play the tape now. MR. BAKER: I object. This is not where he said there was more on the tape. THE COURT: Overruled. MR. BAKER: This is misleading. MR. PETROCELLI: Please play the tape now. (Pause for tape to be played.) (Tape played; not reported.) MR. PETROCELLI: If you can shut that off. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Mr. Simpson, did you hear yourself say "the last thing I A. Yes. Q. And did you hear the question about where is the phone now? You said, "In my bag"? A. Yes. Q. "Oh, you have it -- "Right -- "You have it there, right -- "Yeah, in the black bag. A. Yes. Q. You heard all that? A. Yes. Q. You did tell the police on the tape that the last thing you did before you A. Yes. Q. Yes or no? A. Yes, and -- Q. Thank you. A. -- as I told you before, you left out something again in the middle there. Q. Did you hear it on the tape, sir? A. Yes. Q. What did I leave out? A. Well, whatever that is, I was referring to my stuff that goes with my mobile You left it out there, and you left it out in repeating it. Q. Let's hear it again, one more time. A. That's what I was referring to, the guts to my phone. Q. So you didn't mean phone? (Pause for tape to be played.) (Tape is played; not reported.) MR. PETROCELLI: Stop. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You said, well, whatever that is, that was in response A. That was in response, in my mind, sitting there thinking whatever that is Q. And when he asked you the next question: "Where's the phone now? "In my bag. "Oh, you have it there, right -- "Yeah, in that black bag. "You brought a bag with you?" Et cetera et cetera, even though you were referring, in your mind, to cell A. I never once said that, no, but it was all together. Q. You used the word phone? A. Yes. Q. You used the word phone later on in the interview again, didn't you? A. That's right. Q. You didn't use the word accessories or anything else, did you? A. That's right. Q. Okay, let's move on. Now, in your deposition in this case, you testified that after you went Do you recall that? A. Yeah. Q. And then, when you're in the shower, you heard the phone ring, from your A. At this point I thought I heard the phone ringing and -- Q. Now, you have this system in your -- MR. BAKER: Can he finish his answer. Q. Did you finish your answer? A. I thought I heard the phone ringing, cause you can't always hear it. I looked out and saw the light on. Q. Thank you. I want to get to that. You have this phone system where someone buzzes from the gate, it rings on your A. Yes. Q. And you can go over to the phone, you can press the gate button, and it A. Sort of. Q. Now, you know your limousine driver always comes in through the Ashford A. Yeah, my main guy would normally come through the Ashford gate. Q. Main guy being Dale St. John? A. Yes. Q. And when you were in that shower that night, and the phone is ringing, you A. Across the room, yes. Q. Yeah. And you thought it was your normal driver, Dale St. John, picking you A. I would have assumed it would be Dale. Q. You never heard of Allan Park, right? A. No. Q. And Dale had a limo company called Town & Country, right? A. I believe so. Q. Okay. Now, when you were in the shower and you heard the phone, and you opened the A. Correct. Q. And in your deposition, you explained that the reason you didn't let him in A. Well, the main reason I let him in -- Q. Is that what you testified to, sir? A. I don't believe so. I believe -- I think I didn't open the gate 'cause I I don't recall him ever letting himself totally in on his own. Q. Let's look at 3677, 3679. By the way, there was only one dog on your property that night, Chachi, right? A. Yes. Q. You believe that Dale St. John could get in by pushing the gate open, and A. I believe that if he was going to walk on the property, as many times as he Q. You didn't let him in that night because you figured that he could let A. I figured he would do what he always did, wait outside. Q. Now, you -- and your explanation is you thought that Chachi would run A. Yes, that's -- had been a problem. And I don't know if that was my entire Q. So you just didn't want to let that driver in because you're concerned about A. Yes, and normally, on many occasions -- Q. You can -- A. -- he can wait outside. Q. You can answer yes or no. A. Yes. Q. You didn't want to let the driver in while you were upstairs because you say A. Well, I didn't want to get out of the shower, for one, and two, I wouldn't Q. When you did get out of the shower, you had to walk by your phone to get out A. That's correct. Q. You didn't let him in at that time either? A. I don't think I've ever let him in. Q. Who's -- sir, who's talking about ever? We're only talking about the night You didn't let him in that night, did you? A. That's correct. Q. You let that guy wait out there, right? A. Like he always does. Q. Even though you thought it was your regular driver? A. Like he always does. Q. We're not talking about what he always does. We're only talking about what A. I didn't let him in. Q. Thank you. Okay. You testified in your deposition, sir, that -- MR. BAKER: Page and line. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) 485 through 486, 487 through 488, that your first A. That's correct. Q. And the pants you had on were those stone-washed light blue jeans that you A. Yes. Q. And you had on a pair of shoes, right? A. Yes. Q. And it's kind of late, and the limo driver's there, and you're rushing to A. Yes. Q. Okay. And nonetheless, you say you put on a -- a -- a robe, right? A. Whenever I get out of the shower I put on a robe. Q. We're not talking about whenever. Really just focus on this night, okay? A. Okay. Q. You put on a robe, right? A. Yes. Q. And you had pants on, shoes on, and instead of just putting on a shirt or A. I put on a robe first, yes. Q. Okay. And by the way, was it a dark robe? A. I believe it may have been a burgundy and blue striped robe. Q. But a dark one? Not a light-colored robe? A. I don't know if it would be considered dark or light. It wasn't real light, Q. You said dark in your deposition. A. It could be considered dark, yes. Q. Okay. And then you claim you had this dark robe on and stone-washed jeans and shoes, A. Um-hum. Q. Through the front entrance, looked in this golf bag which had been placed A. On the bench. Q. Or on the bench? A. Yes. Q. Picked it up, looked for shoes in the golf bag, right? A. Yes. Q. You saw that they were there? A. Yes. Q. Closed up the bag? A. Yes. Q. And then you picked the bag up, and sort of motioned and signaled to the A. I picked it up, I kind of put it over the ground and threw it on the ground. Q. So you signaled to him? A. I don't know about signaled to him. Q. You raised up your golf clubs? A. I raised it up off the bench, kind of faced him, and threw it down on the Q. Intending that he's seen you, to let him know that the luggage was there, A. I would have felt it would have been impossible for him not to see me. Q. So you were intending that he see you, right? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And you then walked back in? A. Yes. Q. This was the first time you saw the limousine driver? A. I didn't see the limousine driver. Q. Car? A. Car, yes. Q. Car is parked here on Ashford? A. Yes. Q. And, sir, you say that when you did all this, you walked out as far as -- as A. Well, I picked it up off the bench and I threw it down near the end of the Q. So you didn't go beyond the end of the bench, right? A. I didn't go beyond. I didn't go to the driveway. To say I was at the end of Q. You didn't go beyond the end of the bench, right? A. I don't know. Q. Well, were you out in the driveway? A. No. Q. Were you over here, where the W is, or the A is? (Indicating to Exhibit 116.) A. No. Q. You were back in here? A. Yeah, somewhere in that area. Q. And that's when you believe the limousine driver saw you going in the house, A. Yes. Q. And you -- by the time you testified in this case in the deposition, you had A. Yes. Q. You were familiar with his statement that he gave to your lawyer, Robert A. Probably. Q. And you even heard him testify at trial, too? A. Yes. Q. So you were very familiar with what Allan Park said and in particular where A. Yeah, what I assume was me, yeah. Q. And you're also familiar with the description that Allan Park gave, that he A. I was somewhat confused 'cause I -- somewhere I thought he said, someone Q. Despite the confusion, you were familiar with his story that he saw a person A. That's correct. Q. It's for that reason that you are giving this testimony today that you had A. That's incorrect. Q. So that you could put clothing on that would meet Park's description but not MR. BAKER: Argumentative. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. When you were out here, by the way -- by the way, putting this golf bench A. Yes. Q. And that's what, about 15 feet, 20 feet? (Indicating to 116) A. 20 feet, 30 feet. Q. So there was nothing in the world preventing you, under your story, from MR. BAKER: Argumentative. THE COURT: Overruled. A. I didn't see my dog, so there was nothing to prevent me from going out, Q. So there was nothing preventing you from walking the short distance when you A. Absolutely nothing. Q. But you did not do so, did you? A. Never had. Didn't do so. Q. I didn't ask you about ever. You didn't do so that night? A. No. Q. Thank you. Now, are you, sir, sure, by the way, that when you came downstairs in this Are you absolutely sure? A. I'm -- at this point I know I didn't. I may have earlier, I don't know if I Q. I'm talking about when the limo driver first saw you? A. No, I didn't, not at all that time. Q. Your testimony today in court is that you only went outside, out to the A. That's correct. Q. And not the Bentley? A. Not the Bentley. Q. Okay. Well, isn't it true, sir, that before Allan Park testified at trial in March of A. Yes. Q. And isn't it true, sir, that you told Dr. Lenore Walker, your own hired A. No, I think -- Q. Yes or no? A. I heard many things. We were trying to figure out the evening when I spoke Q. Figure out? A. No. Q. Why did you have to figure anything out? A. Trying to figure out what took place. Q. Trying to figure out what to say, is that what you said, figure out the A. No, incorrect. Q. You just remember the evening, but you and Lenore Walker sat there trying to MR. BAKER: Argumentative, asked and answered. A. I don't believe that was her purpose at all. THE COURT: Overruled. Q. What you just said -- A. No. Q. -- you didn't just say that you tried to figure out the evening? A. I was trying to figure out what happened that evening and I had heard -- Q. There's exactly -- A. I had heard Allan Park long before February. Q. Any question to you -- excuse me. Is it your testimony under oath before this jury that you heard Allan Park A. No. Q. -- Mr. Simpson -- MR. BAKER: Just a minute, Your Honor, this in your face. Maybe Mr. Petrocelli Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Mr. Simpson -- MR. BAKER: Would you direct him to get back to the podium if he's not going to THE COURT: Overruled. You've done the same thing with other witnesses, Mr. Baker. MR. BAKER: Not when I -- when I was using the monitor, Your Honor. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, you just said under oath that Allan Park had A. Yes. Q. And what you meant to convey to the jury is that Allan Park had already A. No. Q. And -- A. I didn't mean to convey I heard him testify before this day. Q. And, in fact, when Allan Park testified before your interview with Dr. A. I don't believe so. Q. You were familiar with Allan Park's testimony and statement that he saw the A. Untrue. I always thought that was Marcia Clark who said that. Q. But you're talking about before Allan Park ever took the stand in the A. Whenever he said it, I don't ever recall -- Q. -- in the trial? A. -- Allan Park ever saying someone walked across the driveway. I never recall Q. That is why you told Dr. Lenore Walker that you went out from the shower, to A. Untrue. Incorrect. Q. You did tell Dr. Lenore Walker on February 25, 1995, that you walked -- you A. I believe I told her I was at the Bentley earlier. Q. You told Dr. Lenore Walker that you went to the Bentley, sir, to get your A. I don't believe that's what I told Lenore Walker, no. Q. Did you not tell Lenore Walker the following: You went into the shower, you A. No, I don't recall saying that to Lenore Walker. Q. Would you agree with me, sir, that the description that I just read to you A. Correct. Q. Okay. And you told Dr. Walker that, with respect to that precise period of time, that A. No, that's incorrect. Q. And you did so because you thought that's what Allan Park was going to say A. That's incorrect. MR. BAKER: Argumentative. Q. And, sir -- THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) And, sir, what is it -- which one is it, sir? Is it the A. I went to the Bentley earlier and I went to -- only as far as approximately Q. Well, perhaps you misunderstood my question. I'm only referring to that moment in this story when you came down from the Are your with me? A. Yes. MR. BAKER: Object to that question on the ground that it's argumentative. THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Is it the Bentley or the benches that you went to at A. The benches. Q. Not the Bentley? A. Not the Bentley. Q. The benches? A. The benches. Q. Now, you testified in your deposition that after this episode that we've A. Yes. Q. You were doing a lot of packing at the last minute here, aren't you? A. Always do. Q. And you told the police that at some point in time you were rushing and A. Yes. Q. Then you also told the police that you were leisurely packing, right? A. Yes. Q. So you told them both things, right? A. I was leisurely earlier and rushing at the end as I always do. Q. You're only going for one night, right? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Now, when you went upstairs to complete the packing, the phone rang again, A. Yes. Q. And it was the gate, right? A. Yes. Q. Now, this is like what, the third time you're hearing the phone ring, and A. I don't know. I believe it was the second time I heard the phone ring. Q. And this time you answered it, right? A. Yes. Q. And for the first time you discovered that it was not Dale St. John, your A. Yes. Q. And then you -- he told you that he was ready to be let in, right? A. No. Q. You told him that you had overslept and just gotten out of the shower, A. Absolutely, not. Q. Deny that? A. Totally. Q. Okay. And in any event, you hung up the phone, and you did not buzz that driver in A. Yes. Q. Correct? A. That's correct. Q. You let him wait out there? A. Like I always do. Q. Wasn't talking about always, sir, just this night? A. Yes. I let him wait out there. Q. You let Allan Park wait out there? A. Yes. Q. You did not buzz him in even though all you had to do was hang up the phone A. That's correct. Q. And again, the reason is this concern about Chachi running out of the gate, A. Yes. Q. Okay. So you completed dressing -- and by the way, you put on a white shirt, denim A. I believe so, yes. Q. And you came downstairs and you started getting your luggage together, A. Not really, no. Q. Now, at some point, sir, there was a piece of luggage behind your Bentley, A. Two pieces, yes. Q. And Kato Kaelin, at one point, went to retrieve the item and you stopped him A. That's incorrect. Q. So if both Kato Kaelin and Allan Park so testified, they are both lying? A. Well, about the "no, no I'll get it." Q. They are lying about that? A. I don't know if they're lying, but I believe that characterization, "no, no, Q. I'll get it? A. Yes. Q. Not no, no? A. Not no, no. Q. Okay. A. Yes. Q. You sure about that now? A. Yes. Q. You're sure? A. Yes. Q. And you went and got that bag, right? A. Well, I went out to -- back to my Bronco, and I went by it and on the way Q. We'll talk about going to the Bronco. I want to focus on the bag. MR. PETROCELLI: Is it inside, Steve? I apologize. It was locked up. This is Exhibit 899. (Counsel places Exhibit 899 on witness stand for witness to review.) Q. This is is a pretty new bag, Mr. Simpson, isn't it? A. Yes. Q. Even got like a tag on it still, doesn't it? A. Yes. Q. When it was purchased. A. I don't know if it was purchased. Q. Now, is that the bag that you went to get near the Bentley, sir? A. I believe so. Q. And if Allan Park and Kato Kaelin testified that they never saw that bag A. Well, I know Allan Park said he never saw the bag at all, so -- Q. So he would be mistaken, right? A. He couldn't (sic) be mistaken that he never saw the bag. Q. How do you know what he testified? A. I was at the trial. Q. Were you here at this trial when he testified? A. No. I was at the criminal trial when he testified, yes. Q. Now, you're positive, sir, that these new -- this new bag is the one that A. I believe it is. I can't say a thousand percent I'm sure of it because I Q. You're sure this bag wasn't acquired after the fact? A. Well, I didn't acquire it after the fact. But I'm pretty sure it was a bag Q. You're sure that bag wasn't acquired by someone, after the fact, to MR. BAKER: Your Honor, there's absolutely no basis for him to ask that MR. PETROCELLI: Try two witnesses who have already testified. THE COURT: Overruled. A. Well, I would think it would -- I would think not. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Are you unsure of yourself? A. No. I would think not. I wouldn't know anybody that would do that. Q. Do what? Do a dishonest thing like replace one bag with another? A. Yes. Q. Even if they're on trial for their life? MR. BAKER: Your Honor, I object. This is great argument. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Wouldn't do such a thing? A. I don't -- THE COURT: Sustained. Jury is to disregard that last question and answer. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Mr. Simpson, I notice a little hesitation in your voice. Are you sure this is the bag? A. That looks like the bag that was there that night. I -- as you -- when you look at my cars, you'll see many little bags that Q. Anyway, at the airport, sir, when you got there with regard to that bag, is A. Yeah. I actually took the balls and stuff out of it and put it in my larger Q. My question is did you put that bag inside the golf bag? A. Yes. Q. Okay. That's that big golf bag that went with you to Chicago, right? A. Yes. Q. Now, on the question of the luggage, just to get it out of the way here, you You had your golf bag, right? A. Yes. Q. You had your Loius Vuitton bag, right? A. Yes. Q. You had this suit bag that has the initials O.J.S on it, right? A. Yes. Q. You had this black grip that you -- that's how you refer to it, like your A. Yes. Q. And then the fifth bag you say was this blue bag, right? A. Yes. Q. And when you got to the airport, you did a little luggage consolidation and A. Yes. Q. So now basically there's four items of luggage, right, four? A. Yes. Q. Four pieces left? A. Yes. Q. And incidentally, that blue bag you took in the back of the limo with you, A. I think when we came out I threw them both in the back of the limo, yes. Q. Excuse me? A. I think I threw them both in the back of the limo when I came out to go to Q. When you went to the airport in the limousine you had that -- you say it was A. I believe so, yes. Q. And when you finished putting that in the golf bag, you did a little A. Yes, that -- putting all my golf stuff together, yes. Q. In fact, you're saying you even removed some things from the bag, didn't A. Yes. Q. Okay. And then two pieces were checked with the Skycap, the golf bag and the A. That's right. Q. And then you went on the airplane with the grip and your suit bag carrying a A. That's correct. Q. Okay, we'll get back to the golf bag a little later on. Now, when you were downstairs getting ready to leave to go to the airport, A. Yeah. At one point, I think when I was coming back from the -- at some point Q. Yeah. And he had said something about an earthquake? A. I believe so. Q. Now, you were home at the time these noises were supposedly heard, right? A. Yes. Q. You didn't feel an earthquake, did you? A. Certainly not. Q. Okay. So Kaelin expressed to you concern that there might be somebody on the grounds A. Yeah. He said he heard something in the back of the house. Q. And he even asked for a flashlight at one point? A. I asked him, do you have a flashlight? And he said -- I think he had a pen Q. Now, at no time did you tell Kaelin, before you left for the airport, to A. True. Q. And at no time did you give Kato any instructions about what he should do A. I told him to look around. Q. But you didn't tell him to call anybody, like security, right? A. No. Q. And when you got in the car and you left, and you drove off in the A. Yes. Q. And, in fact, you also had your own phone with you by this time because you A. That's correct. Q. And you didn't make any calls to Mr. Kaelin from the limousine in regard to A. I know I had a conversation with Allan Park about it. I can't recall if I Q. And -- A. I'm not sure. I may have -- Q. Excuse me. We're not talking about a conversation with Allan Park. We're now talking about a conversation with Kato Kaelin who heard the noises. A. I don't know. I think I -- it seems to me that I attempted to and didn't get Q. So if the phone records would show that there were absolutely no calls made A. No. But I think I -- I seem to recall attempting to. But sometimes when you Q. And by the way -- A. Maybe it wasn't working. I'm not sure. Q. When that happens it shows up on the phone bill, when you don't get through, A. I don't know. Sometimes if it -- If you make a connection through, it will Q. And you didn't give Allan Park any instructions to go back and talk to A. No. Q. And when you got to the airport and you hustled upstairs to catch your A. I believe so. Q. And you made a phone call from the pay Phone at the airport, right? A. Yes. Q. And you called Mr. Kaelin to tell him to set the alarm, right? A. Yeah. I called him and asked him, did you find anything. Then I said, well, Q. I asked you if you called him to set the alarm. Did you or didn't you? A. I -- eventually, that's what I told him to do. Q. At no time in that call, sir, did you mention a word about the noises that A. No. I think the first -- Q. True or untrue? A. That's untrue. Q. Okay. A. I didn't mention the noises. I asked him did he look around, and he said no. Q. Than you gave him no instructions in regard to Arnelle, did you? A. No. Q. Making sure she was safe and there wasn't some burglar or prowler on the A. No. Q. Now, just a few moments ago, Mr. Simpson, you talked about before you left, A. Yes. Q. Now, we went through this. On the police statement it says the last thing you did is to get your phone, A. Yes. Q. And your testimony now is that you went down and you're -- not to get the A. Yes. I view it all as the same thing. Q. You view what as the same thing? A. This comes as a unit. Q. You mean the phone and the accessories because -- MR. BAKER: Can you let him finish his answer, Mr. Petrocelli. A. I view -- it's a nice little purse package that the whole thing comes Q. And by the way, in this accessory things you're talking about, what is that, A. It's a -- you have a portable phone charger, you have a wire that you can Q. Now, couple questions about that. First of all, you weren't really interested in getting your cigarette lighter A. I may have 'cause I may have stayed over. Q. But they pick you up in limos and Hertz takes cares of you? A. Yes. Q. They drive you all around, first class treatment? A. Yes. Q. Fly first class? A. Yes. Q. They pay for everything? A. Yes. Q. So you're nor going there and checking into the Hertz rent-a-car place and A. If I stayed over I would have rented a Hertz car, yes. Q. So for that reason you were going to -- you really wanted to go get that A. No. It all comes in a case, so it's together, what's in there. Often I never Q. And? A. Excuse me. Q. Sure. A. And I always carry it together. Q. Besides the cigarette charger, what other charger is in there? A. It's a little thing. It's really kind of unique. You flip it up and you Q. And you wanted to take that with you to put in your hotel room? A. I carry it all with me. It's how I carry the phone. That's how it all comes. Q. Now, when you got to the hotel room that morning, you didn't take that thing A. No, I didn't. Q. Okay. And your testimony at your deposition was that these -- this case with A. Yeah, either on the seat or the floor. I'm not sure. Q. On the passenger side? A. Yes. Q. Now, when you went out to the Bronco, this is while Park is still parked A. He's not in the car. The limo's in the driveway, he's standing somewhere in Q. Right before you're going -- ready to go to the airport? A. Yes. Q. And you say you then walked down -- all the way down the driveway, right? A. Yes. Q. And you pressed the gate control box? A. I may have. I may have -- Yeah, I'm sure I pressed it going out or -- no, I Q. And you opened, it right? A. Yeah. Q. Now, you just said you unhinged it? A. Yeah. Q. You sure you didn't hit that button? A. No, I'm pretty sure I unhinged it. Q. You sure the dog didn't run out? A. No, the dog didn't run out. I unhinged it so I wouldn't have to open the Q. If you had opened it by opening the gate control box, the possibility A. If I called him at that point, if I can see him when he leaves, I call him, Q. You went out, you say you walked over to the driver side of the Bronco, A. Yes. Q. Now, even though these items were on the passenger side, you went over to A. Yeah. Q. No explanation for that, right? A. I think it's just a natural habit that you go to the driver side of your Q. You opened up the car door, right? A. Yes. Q. And you reached with your right hand to get these items on the passenger A. I think the Windbreaker was sort of over the back of the front seat also. Q. And by the way, was -- did the light go on the overhead light -- A. I don't recall. It should have. Q. Now, you just reached in, got these items and closed the door and went back, A. That's correct. Q. Now, you did not get in the car and sit down, right? A. You know what, I don't know. We would have to get in the Bronco to see what Q. Mr. Simpson, you didn't get into this vehicle, sit down, close the door, and A. No. I'm just saying the Bronco's kind of a big car so you got to almost get Q. You didn't start the car, right? A. Correct. Q. You didn't pull out the headlight button, right? A. Correct. Q. And you didn't close the door, right? A. That's correct. Q. So you didn't have to open the door 'cause it wasn't closed, it was open the A. I'm sorry? Q. You didn't have to -- You didn't have to? A. Say it again. Q. You didn't have to open the driver-side door by pulling the handle because A. Yes. Q. So you just reached in, got your things, and closed the door, right? A. Reached in, climbed up -- reached in or climbed up and got the things. Q. That's -- climbed up; that's a new fact? A. I doubt if it's a new fact. I can't say whether reaching in to get something Q. You left that Bronco, you closed the door and locked it, right? A. That's correct. Q. You didn't bleed in that Bronco? A. If I did I would have no knowledge of it. Q. You didn't bleed? A. I would have absolutely no knowledge -- Q. You didn't bleed on the thing that opens up the cigarette lighter because You didn't bleed on the nob where you open the headlights or turn on the A. I would have no knowledge. I doubt very seriously -- Q. You didn't touch it? A. -- if I did. Q. You didn't touch it? A. I didn't touch it. Q. Now, you testified on Friday that after you had come back from McDonald's at A. That's correct. Q. So -- and when you went into the Bronco, you didn't see any blood anywhere, A. Anywhere. Q. You didn't -- A. That's correct. Q. You didn't see blood on the light switch? A. That's correct. Q. You didn't see blood on the door handle that you open the door, right? A. That's correct. Q. You didn't even touch that door handle on the inside of the car, right? A. I wouldn't know that or not. Q. And you were right-handed? A. Yes. Q. So your reaching in with your right hand, right? A. I would assume so. Q. Not your left hand, right? A. I would assume that if I normally reach, it would be with my right hand. Q. There was nothing coming out of your right hand dripping with blood, right? A. Not that I saw. Q. And are you now saying you stepped in the Bronco, sir? A. I'm saying, as I told you before, I don't know if I -- how I got over it to Q. So the record will reflect, when you just demonstrated reaching, both times A. That's correct. Q. And then you're right-handed? A. That's correct. Q. Did you leave a bloody footprint there when you stepped in? A. I certainly didn't see it. Q. You think it's a possibility, sir? A. No. Q. You think it's a possibility that you dripped blood all over that Bronco MR. BAKER: Argumentative. THE COURT: Overruled. A. I didn't see any blood. Anything's a possibility, but I certainly did not Q. Well, you just said leaving a bloody shoe print wasn't possible? A. I don't -- anything's a possibility, but I don't -- I don't think I left any Q. You know blood was found the next morning in that car, right? A. Yes. Q. You have no explanation for that blood, do you, sir? A. That's correct. Q. And it's your blood, right? A. I don't know. Q. It matches your blood? A. I've been told that it does, yes. Q. You have no explanation for how blood matching your blood and DNA matching A. I don't know if it was found the next morning, but -- Q. What do you mean you don't know? A. I don't know when they took it out. I didn't think they did that the next Q. Well, Monday or Tuesday? A. Whenever. Q. And you have no explanation for how DNA matching your DNA was found in that A. That's correct. Q. And you have no explanation for how your blood was found in that Bronco? A. That's correct. Q. And you have no explanation, sir, for how blood of Nicole's was found on the A. No. Q. And you have no explanation for how Ron Goldman's blood got in your car that A. Me personally, no. Q. Have no explanation for this jury, do you? A. No. Q. None? A. None. Q. I notice you turned to the jury. You trying to emphasize that point? MR. BAKER: Your Honor, that's out of line. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, you did tell the police, however, sir, when you A. Yes. Q. And you told the police that you cut your finger at a time that was between A. Yes. Q. That's the time that Ron and Nicole were murdered, right? A. That's what I'm told, yes. Q. And you told the police that you may have reopened that cut in Chicago, A. Yes. Q. Now, the cut that you reopened in Chicago, sir, was on your middle finger, A. May have reopened, yes. Q. What do you mean may have? You just -- you didn't tell the cops "may have," did you? A. I thought so. I thought that's what I said to them. Q. Now, the cut on your middle finger is one that still bears a scar, does it (Witness reviews finger.) A. Yes. Q. Left hand middle finger, right? A. Yes. (Witness displays finger to Mr. Petrocelli.) Q. Right over there, right across the knuckle? A. Yes. Q. How did that mark get on your finger between 10 and 11 on June 12 in Los A. I didn't see that or any mark on my hand between 10 and 11 on June 12. Q. How is it, then, that you reopened that cut in Chicago the next morning? A. It was in -- an assumption on my part. Q. What do you mean by assumption? You assumed -- MR. BAKER: Let him answer the question. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You assumed -- MR. BAKER: He asked you what? MR. PETROCELLI: Would you answer the question. MR. BAKER: What do you mean by an assumption? MR. PETROCELLI: Withdraw the question. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You assumed you reopened the cut; is that what you're A. Yes, because I did not see any cut, as I emphasized to the police on Q. Well, the cut that you were talking to the police about, was this one that A. That's correct. rm54 Q. You told the police, sir, that you reopened that -- A. Yeah. Q. -- in Chicago, true or untrue? Just answer the question. A. I can't answer the question cause I think I said may have. Q. You may have or did, right? A. May have. Q. Okay. We'll find it. And you also told the police that you were quite sure you cut your finger A. Probably. Q. Probably? A. I don't recall saying it, but I do recall when they were asking me about the Q. And they asked you if you may have -- if you had been bleeding at Nicole's Do you remember that? A. I saw blood last night, yes. Q. Well, let me read on page 22, line 27. (Reading.) "Q. Do you recall having that cut on your finger the last time you were at "A. Oh, a week ago? "Q. Yeah. "A. No. "Q. 0h, so it's since then? "A. Oh, I'm pretty sure, yeah. Yeah, just last night. "Q. Okay. Somewhere last night you cut it? "A. Yeah, yeah. "Q. Somewhere after the recital? "A. Somewhere when I was rushing to get out of my house. "Q. Okay. After the recital? "A. Yeah. "Q. What do you think happened? Do you have any idea? "A. I have no idea, man." There's no doubt that you told the police you cut your hand the night before A. True. Q. And you told the police that you had no idea how you did it, right? A. That's correct. Q. And you told the police that you reopened that cut or may have reopened that A. Yes. Q. Tell the jury which cut did you reopen in Chicago, sir. Point to it. A. The police -- Q. Just point to the cut on your finger -- A. Well, I don't know because -- Q. -- that you reopened? A. You haven't talked about everything that's in there. Q. No, no, no, we'll do this one step at a time. A. I don't know, I never saw -- Q. Excuse me, sir. I just want you to point -- MR. BAKER: Your Honor - MR. PETROCELLI: He's not answering my question. MR. BAKER: That's because you won't let him. You keep interrupting him. Let him THE COURT: Overruled. Ask your question. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Mr. Simpson, point to the cut on your finger that you Just point to it. A. I can't, cause I never saw a cut that night. Q. Well, you know the finger that you cut in Chicago, right? A. Yes. Q. So point to that. A. The finger that I cut in Chicago is here. MR. PETROCELLI: Let the record reflect Mr. Simpson is pointing to the middle Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) What do you call that, knuckle joint, I don't know. What A. You're asking me? Q. Yeah. A. I would call it a knuckle. Q. Okay. And there's a scar there, right? A. Yes. Q. Is that scar the cut that you incurred in Los Angeles between 10 and 11 p.m. A. I would have to say no. Q. Is that the cut you reopened in Chicago, yes or no? A. I would say no. Q. What do you mean you would say? What happened? Can't you just answer the MR. BAKER: Well, that's argumentative, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. Answer it. A. You want me to explain? Q. I'm not asking you what you would say. When you told the police that you cut your finger in Los Angeles, and that you A. I think earlier I told you I assumed, because I saw blood the night before, I made an assumption, which I realize I shouldn't have made, because I saw Q. Were you wrong telling the police that you cut your finger before you left A. That's right. I saw a spot of blood -- Q. One question at a time. You were wrong when you told the police that you reopened that cut or that you A. I was wrong. Q. Wrong. Wrong about crucial questions given to you hours after Nicole's murder, true? MR. BAKER: This is argument. A. At the time I didn't know what was crucial. Q. Let me ask you -- MR. BAKER: Wait a minute. This is argumentative. MR. PETROCELLI: It's not argumentative. MR. BAKER: Again -- MR. PETROCELLI: Not -- absolutely not argumentative. THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Let me back up here. You testified on Friday this was the first time that you were substantively A. That's right. Q. You've never ever been interviewed in connection with the murder? A. That's right. Q. You've never been interviewed in connection with the murder of your ex-wife? A. Correct. Q. You were there not to assume anything, you were there to tell the truth, A. Yes. But I did assume some things. Q. And by the way, while you were assuming things, you said in the interview A. Yes. Q. You didn't know what to say to the police about the cut on the finger, true, A. I knew what to say about when I got it. I think I was emphatic to the police Q. I want to talk about what you said to the police in this interview. Not on A. Okay. Q. You had a real problem coming back from Chicago with a cut on your hand and A. I wouldn't have viewed it as a problem, no. Q. And you had no real explanation for that cut, correct? A. Incorrect. Q. You had no explanation for why blood was found at your house, right? A. At my house? Q. Yes. A. I don't know. Q. Now, the police told you that they found blood at your house? A. Yes. Q. They said there's blood on the driveway, right? A. Possibly. Q. They said there's blood in the car, right? A. They may have. Q. They didn't tell you about any blood at Bundy, correct? A. I'm pretty sure -- I don't recall -- I remember -- Q. Okay. A. -- a police officer saying to me while I was handcuffed about blood Q. While you were talking about why all the police and media were at your A. No. Q. When you showed up there? A. No, we were talking about why I was handcuffed. Q. The police told you about blood they found at Rockingham, true? A. I don't recall. I remember him saying there was blood everywhere and he -- I Q. Let me read it to you. Page 31. (Reading.). "Well, there's blood at your house, in the driveway. And that -- foot step. "A. Sure. "Q. We found some in your house. "A. Oh. "Q. Is that your blood that's dripped there? "A. If it's dripped it's what I dripped running around trying to leave." A. Yes? Q. Now, when the police told you they found blood at Rockingham, you told them A. Yeah, I assumed that, yes. Q. Was that an assumption? A. Yes. Q. An important question like that and you just made an assumption? A. Well, I saw -- Q. Is that what you're saying? A. I made it clear to them that I saw a spot of blood. I didn't tell them that Q. You also told them, sir, if that -- if it's your blood dripped on the A. I don't know if I specifically -- Q. -- and the Bronco, that it's what you must have dripped running around, true A. I don't believe that's what was implied by that answer. Q. Well, when I said, sir, is that your blood that's dripped there, referring Now you were referring to, when you said that, to the driveway and your house, A. I assumed -- I knew I was bleeding. I told them that I saw a drop of blood Q. Now, you told the police that you cut your finger -- excuse me -- that you A. That's right. Q. You testified at your deposition that there was a little dab or speck of A. I don't believe I said that. Q. You don't believe you said that there was a little blood on your pinky of A. I believe I said that. Q. Okay. And you also said that a little droplet fell to the kitchen counter? A. No, I said I saw a drop on the kitchen counter. Q. How did it get there? A. I assumed -- since I saw some on my finger and saw a drop there, I assumed Q. Okay. A. -- you know, I was trying to leave, I wasn't thinking about it. Q. So you saw blood on the counter, right? A. I saw what I thought was blood on my counter. Q. At the same time that you're seeing blood on your finger, right? A. Yes, on my pinky fingernail. Q. And you then, you said in your depo, took a towel and cleaned the blood off A. I took a piece of paper from a towel rack, my paper towel rack, yes. Q. And then threw it away? A. I assume so. I don't know, I was talking to Kato and I was walking out the Q. So you told the police that, no question about that in your mind, there's A. Once again, that would have been an assumption because since I saw a drop of Q. Did you -- did you assume that it was your blood, sir? A. I assumed that, at the time, it was my blood, yes. Q. You have -- you don't have any reason to believe it's somebody else's blood? A. I assumed it was my blood. Q. You have no reason to believe that it's anybody else's blood? A. I assumed it was my blood. Q. Now, tell the jury how you cut yourself such to have blood that was on the A. I don't know. As I said, I didn't feel the cut, I didn't see any other blood Q. You have no idea how blood got on you that night; is that what you're A. Yes. THE COURT: Okay. 10 minutes, ladies and gentlemen. Bring the jury back in exactly 10 minutes. (Recess.) (Jurors resumed their respective seats.) MR. PETROCELLI: Thank you, Your Honor. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Mr. Simpson, your testimony is that in the evening of MR. BAKER: Asked and answered, argumentative MR. PETROCELLI: That -- THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Did you see any blood anywhere else at all in the house, A. No, not that I recall. Q. Now, you're positive that the blood that you saw was on your pinky, not on A. Yes. Q. And you're positive it was your left hand, right? A. Yeah, pretty sure that's where it was. Q. And you did not tell the police, sir, about any pinky cut, did you? A. No. Q. You didn't tell the police that you cut your pinky, right? A. No. Q. And you didn't tell the police that you saw blood on your pinky, right? A. I know I did, possibly more than once. Q. In the statement you didn't tell the police, the tape recorded statement, A. I -- possibly not, but I don't know, I don't -- I haven't read it to that Q. Well, you want to take a look at the page where you discuss the blood in the A. In this, no. Q. Okay. A. I mean I don't see it there. Q. The discussion you were having about a cut finger, with the police, was in A. I know we talked about that, yes. Q. And in all the discussions about your finger being cut, with the police, the A. I remember we talked about that, yes. Q. Okay. And there's nothing in the statement about a pinky, right? A. No, I don't believe so. But I know I told them that on more than one Q. Now, when you left to go to the airport, you got there and got on the plane A. At some point, yes. Q. And nobody sat next to you, right? A. I don't believe so. Q. And it was the lights go out on a redeye flight and most folks go to sleep? MR. BAKER: Object. THE WITNESS: I would assume so. MR. BAKER: Calls for speculation. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You're a frequent first class flyer on redeye flights, A. Yes. Q. You see that most of the time, people in the cabin are sleeping, right? A. A lot of people -- some people read, some people sleep. I tend to try to Q. You didn't sleep that night, right? A. I think I dozed a little bit, yes. Q. For how long? A. I don't know. Q. Couple hours? A. I don't know. I couldn't even tell you how long the flight was because I Q. So a four-hour flight, you think you slept two hours? A. Maybe, maybe an hour. Q. Hour to two? A. Yeah. Q. Okay. A. Yeah. Q. You didn't display your left hand to anyone on the airplane, did you? A. No. Q. When you landed in Chicago, it was about 6 a.m. Chicago time? A. I would have guessed so. Q. You were met there by a Hertz representative to take you over to the A. No. Q. Take you to the hotel? Excuse me. A. Yes. Q. This is Chicago -- O'Hare Airport? A. That's right. Q. You're going to a hotel that was then called the Chicago O'Hare Plaza? A. That's correct. Q. Now called the Windham hotel? A. I don't know. Q. In any event, you had never seen this person who showed up to pick you up, A. I don't believe so. Q. Okay. And when he met you at the gate -- A. Yes. Q. -- you came off the plane with your black grip and your suit -- your O.J.S A. Yes. Q. And you walked down to the baggage claim area to pick up the Louis Vuitton A. I believe so, yes. Q. Before the baggage got there, you sat down on the bench with this fellow A. Yes. Q. M-e-r-r-i-l-l. Hertz employee, right? A. Yes. Q. This was a Hertz function you were going to? A. That's correct. Q. And when the baggage arrived on the carousel, you left your two items that A. I don't recall. I know I carried some; he carried some. Q. I'm just focusing on the time when you're waiting for the luggage, right? A. Yeah, I was signing autographs, waiting for the luggage. Q. So what I'm getting to is this: Merrill is waiting on the bench with two of A. I don't recall that. I just know he carried two items and I carried two Q. Do you recall that or not? A. No. Q. If Merrill said that happened, you wouldn't quarrel with that, would you? A. No. Q. Okay. And you were out of Merrill's view for a couple of minutes, right? A. No, no, this was -- was as close as almost you and I are. Q. Couple of minutes it took you to go get your stuff and come back? A. We were about -- the baggage rack was about where your counsel table is and Q. You picked up the golf bag and the Louis Vuitton bag, and carrying those A. Yeah, it was right outside the door, maybe ten yards from us. Q. And you put those items -- the golf bag went in the trunk, right? A. Yeah. He had a truck. It went in the back of his truck. Q. And you then drove to the hotel, correct? A. That's correct. Q. Hotel is only about five minutes away, right? A. It didn't seem much more than ten minutes. Q. Pretty close to the airport? A. Yes. Q. Now, when you got to the airport -- excuse me. When you got to the hotel, you made arrangements with Mr. Merrill to pick you A. No. Q. You had -- you had him -- you exchanged phone numbers with him, right? A. Yeah, he gave me his number. It was already arranged that he would pick me Q. You were expecting him to come back in a few hours to get you and take you A. That's correct. Q. And you got from Mr. Merrill some telephone numbers, right? A. Yes. Q. And you got from Mr. Merrill his work number, correct? A. That's correct. Q. And you also got from Mr. Merrill his home phone number, correct? A. Well, I think I got his mobile phone and his home phone. I don't believe I Q. May have been in his car? A. I don't remember getting -- Q. Basically you had all his phone numbers? A. I think I had them. Q. Excuse me? A. I think I had them on my travel thing, I believe, and I think he may have Q. And you asked for that? A. I don't know if I asked for it or not. I think he just gave it to me. Q. Then you checked into the hotel, correct? A. Yes. Q. And you left your golf bag with Merrill in the truck? A. That's right. Q. And you took the other items with you, correct? A. Yes. Q. And you were expecting to see Merrill in a few hours, correct? A. Five hours or so. Q. It was about -- about 6:30 a.m. Chicago time? A. That's correct. Q. And he was going to pick you up about 10 o'clock? A. I don't know -- I thought something was going on at -- I thought he was Q. Now, you told the person at the front desk that you did not want any phone A. I don't know if I told her that or not. I may have, but I don't -- I don't Q. You sure? A. I don't -- I don't ever recall ever telling people don't put calls through. Q. You didn't tell her that you didn't want to be disturbed cause you only had A. I may have. Q. Did you say that? A. I may have, yes. Q. You may have? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Then you went up to your room, and you didn't unpack all your clothes, A. When you say unpack, I took my suit bag and hung it up. I took my -- the two Q. You got in bed, right? A. Yes. Q. And laid down for a while, correct? A. Yeah, I may have read a little bit. I tend to read myself to sleep. MR. PETROCELLI: Can we have the photos of the hotel room, Steve. (Mr. Foster displays exhibits.) Q. Now, that was a suite that they set up for you, right? A. I believe so. Q. Suite 915? A. Yes. Q. And the bedroom had a phone next to it, correct, the bedroom had a bedside A. Yes. Q. And there is no telephone in the bathroom which is in the next room, right? A. I don't believe so, but I don't recall. MR. PETROCELLI: What exhibit number? MR. FOSTER: 1319. (Exhibit 1319 was displayed.) Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You can look at the monitor, Mr. Simpson. A. Yeah. Q. That's the bed you slept in, right? A. Yes. Q. And this is the phone next to the bed, right? A. Yes. Q. And you slept for a little bit, right? A. Yes. Q. And you dropped some blood while you were sleeping in the middle of those A. I would doubt that. Q. And there was blood found in the middle or center area of the sheets, right? You're aware of that? A. I don't know where, but I heard that there was a drop of blood or something Q. Now, just jumping ahead for a second. After you received the call from Detective Phillips notifying you of Nicole's A. Into, no. Q. You didn't lay down and take a nap or anything, right? A. Into the bed, no. I did lay back on the bed at one point, and was on the bed Q. Okay. Now, Detective Phillips called around 8 o'clock Chicago time, correct? A. That's correct. Q. And told you that your ex-wife had been killed, right? A. Among other things, yes. Q. And said your children were at the police station, right? A. Yes. Q. And you said, what do you mean? What do you mean? Words to that effect, True? A. Yeah. Q. You never once said to Detective Phillips, are you sure, are you sure, you A. Am I sure of what? Q. Are you sure it was Nicole? A. No. Q. As opposed to somebody else? A. No. Q. You didn't say that, did you? A. No, I didn't. Q. And you didn't ask Detective Phillips questions about how it could have A. I think -- Q. You didn't ask any of those questions? A. About a burglary and a car accident, no. I think my first question was, what do you mean, what are you saying, what do Q. And after he told you those things, Mr. Simpson, you did not continue to A. No. I called back though, and then whoever I talked to next told me the same Q. Told you they didn't know anything? A. That there was nothing they can tell me. Same thing they told me all day Q. You then got on the phone to make this arrangement to get back to Los A. Yes. Q. And you talked to Cathy Randa, your assistant, to help you get a flight back A. I think on numerous times I did. Q. Several times, right? A. Yes. Q. And you -- she got on the phone with you on a three-way conference call to a A. You know, I really don't recall any of that. I just know -- Q. You don't recall? A. No. Q. Okay. And while you were on the telephone call with Cathy and this travel A. I don't know. I know at a couple of times the people who were trying to help Q. Let me stop you there. That exhibit we just had on the TV monitor, of the bed, was Exhibit 1319. And (Exhibit 2156 displayed.) Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, this is the bathroom that adjoins that bedroom, A. Yes. Q. There's no phone in that bathroom, right? A. I don't see any. Q. And you went in that bathroom while you were on the phone, or between calls A. Yeah, a glass broke at one point when I was in there. Q. What do you mean a glass broke? You broke it, right? A. Yes. Q. Tell the jury exactly how you broke the glass. A. I couldn't tell you. I don't know. Q. Give us -- Give us your best recollection. How did you break it, sir? A. I think I was very emotional when I went in there at one point, and during Q. Pretend this is a glass. (Indicating to a water bottle.) A. Yes. Q. I wish I had a glass. I was supposed to have one. Let's use this. You know those hotel glasses are kind of thick, right? A. Yes. Q. Sturdy glasses. They're sort of short tumblers? A. Some are, some aren't. Q. That's the kind of glass they had there? A. I don't recall. Q. How did you break it? What did you do? A. I don't know. At one point going back and forth, a glass broke. I couldn't Q. That's not a normal occurrence for you, glasses to break, right? A. I've broken glasses. I think everybody here has broken glasses before. Q. You know when you break a glass, right? A. I know when I broke a glass. Q. When did you break this glass? A. I don't know. Q. At what point in time did you break this glass, tell us exactly when it A. As I've told you on numerous occasions, Mr. Petrocelli, it was during the Q. Well, the glasses -- you see the coffee, condiments and the coffee machine (Indicating to exhibit 2156) A. Yes. Q. Now, is this the way it looked when you were there that -- A. I don't remember. Q. You don't question this, though, do you? A. No. Q. Okay. Now, you didn't take the glass and throw it at these items here, right? A. No. Q. Okay. And you didn't take the glass and throw it at the mirror, right? A. I don't recall. Q. And you didn't throw it at the shower, did you? A. No. Q. And you didn't throw it into the toilet, did you? A. No. Q. You didn't throw it on the floor, did you? A. No. Q. You didn't throw it at anything, right? A. I don't believe so, no. Q. Okay. And if you didn't throw the glass -- excuse me. Did you step on it? A. No. Q. Did you put it down on the ground and step on it? A. No. Q. Did you kick it? A. No. Q. Did you do anything with the glass in sort of an act of rage or violence, A. Rage of violence, no. Q. Yeah. Did you slam it down on the counter? A. I may have. Q. You may have? A. Yes. Q. Okay. That's the closest you can remember is that you may have taken the A. I may have. Q. Okay. Is that the best you can do for this jury? A. Yes. MR. BAKER: Argumentative. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Did -- Now, when you think you've -- you may have done MR. BAKER: We now have elevated it to happening when he says it may have THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer if you can. A. I just recall my toothbrush and glass right around the area that may -- what It was just a glass there. I moved it. I just know that I somehow moved it into Q. When that glass broke, you got -- you went back to the telephone and told A. I don't know. I don't know what I said to these people. I just knew -- Q. You remember saying that? A. No, I don't. Q. Okay. And when the glass broke, you said one piece landed on the floor, right? A. I don't know. It may have been two pieces. Q. Two pieces? A. It seemed to me I picked something up off the floor, 'cause my first concern As I said, I was in such a rush that it wasn't anything that I focused on. Q. Now, what about on the counter, where were the glass chips on -- or glass A. I just know it was on this side. Q. What side? Right side? A. Facing -- Q. The picture? A. Facing on the side where the toilet paper seemed to be. Q. Right here? A. I don't know. It was in that area. It was on this side of the sink. I don't Q. Okay. And when that happened, sir, right away did you notice blood? A. I don't believe so. Q. Okay. And after that happened, sir, what did you do? A. I don't know. I was going back and forth to the phone, and at one point I Q. What paper? A. I believe it was the toilet paper. Q. Toilet paper? A. Yeah. Q. So the sequence of events is you think you may have slammed the glass down, What did you do with the glass up on the counter? A. I think basically my recall, and I'm strictly taking a shot here. I -- at Q. Now, you didn't cut your hand when you slammed the glass down, right? A. I don't believe I cut it when the glass first broke. Q. You keep saying glass first broke? A. Yes. Q. You don't know how you did it? A. No. Q. And with the glass up here, you testified in your deposition that you began A. I don't know about all the way across. I would imagine that even where you Q. From the toilet paper area to the sink you think is about 12 inches? A. Yeah, I would say there. (Indicating to photo.) Q. Okay. A. As I said, it's on the toilet paper side of the sink. I wouldn't say it's as Q. Now, when you did the sweeping of the glass into the sink, did you put A. I think I used a towel to do that. Q. And you wrapped the towel around your hand? A. No, I don't -- Q. What did you do with the towel? A. I don't know. I just took something. I may have been trying to flap it over. All I know is that at some point I was packing my stuff, I made sure the glass Q. Did you put the towel around your hand? That's what I'm trying to figure out. A. I don't know. Q. Did you take the towel and put it in front of your hand? A. I don't recall. Q. Now, you're right-handed, you said, right? A. Yeah. Q. So did you take your right hand and sweep the glass into the sink? A. I don't recall. Q. And you cut your hand when you did the sweeping of the glass into the sink? A. I assumed so; at some point I was cleaning up the glass, a piece cut my -- Q. Now, the glass was swept from the countertop into the sink, right? A. I think I got most of it into the sink, yes. Q. And you picked one or two pieces up and put those in the sink, right? A. Yes. Q. And you didn't cut your right hand doing that, did you? A. No, I didn't. Q. You have marks on your left hand, right? A. Yes, I have marks on both hands. Q. Well, that night you had a large injury on your left hand, right? A. That's correct. Q. And it's on the back of your left finger, right? A. That's correct. Q. And, in fact, you also had -- for the jury, we're talking about the middle A. Yes. Q. Now, your testimony right now is that you sustained that injury, that still A. I sustained that injury at sometime, I assumed, sweeping, picking up, I was Q. Okay. And so then you're now saying that you used your left hand? A. I'm sure I used both hands, you know. I'm -- you know, I can use both of my Q. So, you mean you used your left hand to backhand the chips -- A. I don't know. Q. -- chips of glass into the sink? A. I don't know. Q. How did you get the cut on your finger? A. Well, I got the cut during the period of time that I was trying to get the Q. Well, tell us how glass came into contact to that part of your finger, sir, A. As I've told you on numerous occasions now, I couldn't tell you distinctly I can't tell you any more than that. Q. You're unable to give us anything more definitive than that, sir? A. That's correct. Q. You cannot tell the jury how the cut -- how the glass actually cut your A. No. Q. True? A. That is -- No. Q. That is correct? A. That is correct. Q. And you also had another injury when you came back to Los Angeles, right, A. That's incorrect. Q. In other words, you had not only the middle finger injured that still bears A. That's incorrect. Q. You've seen the picture of that, right? A. Yes. Q. And you deny coming back to LA with that on your hand? A. Yes. Q. And you deny having that cut on your hand on the fourth finger, the inside A. Well, I know it wasn't there when the police had my hand on the paper with Q. And was it there by the time you left the police station? A. I don't -- It wasn't there then. I know when I was with Vannatter and Lange and Nurse Peratis, all three of them MR. PETROCELLI: Okay. This is the fourth finger, right. Exhibit 714/715. (Exhibit 714/715 displayed.) Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You definitely had this on your fourth finger as of June A. I assume so, yes. Q. You don't deny that, do you? A. I assume so. I don't recall it, but if that's when this picture was taken Q. Well, if he said you had that cut on your finger on the 15 of June, you A. Not at all. Q. Okay. Now, did you have this injury depicted on this exhibit of your -- Exhibit 714? A. Most definitely not. I didn't see it. I know -- I know both Peratis, Q. Well, I'm not interested in argument. Just answer the question, okay. MR. BAKER: I'm going to object to that comment, especially in lieu of his THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Mr. Simpson, if you had an injury like that on your hand A. Not necessarily. Q. Oh, would you have an injury like that and not even be aware of it; is that A. Often I do. Q. Marks like that? A. That's not really -- if you could look at the wrinkles of your hand and look Q. Okay. A. -- was not there on the 13th when I was in Nurse Peratis' office with Q. And -- well, let me -- let me say this to you. You've been with Skip Taft A. Yes. Q. Is he an honest man? A. I think so. Q. Very loyal to you? A. I believe so. Q. And he testified in his deposition that you had that on your hand at June MR. BAKER: I object. That's an improper question. I object to that. Q. (MR. PETROCELLI) If he testified -- THE COURT: Just a minute. Sustained. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) If he testified that you had that injury on your hand on MR. BAKER: I object again. He's asking the same question. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Would that be correct or incorrect? MR. BAKER: He's asking the same question. It's been sustained. MR. PETROCELLI: It's not the same question. MR. BAKER: Exactly the same -- THE COURT: Excuse me. Taft has not testified, yes? MR. PETROCELLI: Taft? THE COURT: Taft. MR. PETROCELLI: Skip Taft, T-a-f-t, he will be testifying shortly, Your Honor. And my question to the witness is if Mr. Taft did testify in his deposition -- THE COURT: All right then. Overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) If Mr. Taft testified in his deposition that you had A. He'd be incorrect. Q. And was he there with you? A. He was there with me just about every day. Q. So was Howard Weitzman, your lawyer? A. That's correct. Q. How did you get that cut, Mr. Simpson? A. You know, I really don't know. Q. So between June 13 and when Huizenga saw it on June 15, you have no clue how MR. BAKER: Argumentative. THE COURT: Overruled. A. That's correct. I don't think that was a cut that -- that was not a cut, I Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) It was a fingernail mark, wasn't it, sir? A. I doubt that very seriously. Q. It was someone's fingernails gripping into your skin, true? A. Unless it was Justin. MR. BAKER: Object. THE COURT: Overruled. A. I can't imagine who else it was. Q. You're saying it was Justin's, your son's? A. I think Justin is the only person that between the 13th and the 15th that I Q. You're talking about the night of June 14, sir? A. Yes. Q. And how old was Justin that night? A. Probably 17 (sic). I'm not saying this was Justin. Q. 17? A. I'm saying he was the only person that I was in any -- that I would call Q. How old was Justin? A. 7. Q. And how old was he -- how big was he? A. Justin's a healthy kid. Q. When he was -- the evening of June 14, 1994, you're talking about a little A. 7 year old, 80-pound boy. Q. You're not saying to the jury that Justin gouged you with his fingernails A. Not at all. Q. You're not saying that? A. Not at all. But's he the only person I was in any kind of physical wrestle Q. Exhibit from 714 slash 715. It's a booklet of photographs testified to by This is your middle finger, Mr. Simpson, you see that? A. Yes. Q. Now, what's the cut -- what's the injury that you sustained in Chicago that A. This -- this thing right here. Q. This curved mark here? A. Yes. (Indicating to Exhibit 714/715.) Q. And there's another injury right here. Do you see that? A. Yes. Q. Another sort of curved mark. Do you see that? A. Yes. Q. Now, how did you -- how did you get that injury? A. I don't know. Q. You don't know? A. No. Q. Can't give us a single explanation, true? A. True. Q. And you had had -- you had that injury on your hand as of June 15, true? A. Possibly. Q. When Dr. Huizenga so testified you wouldn't dispute that, would you? A. No, I wouldn't. Q. Did you have that injury on your hand when you came back from Chicago? A. No. The only injury I had on my hand -- like I said, they inspected it very Q. Excuse me. I'm not asking you who inspected what. Okay. Did you have this injury on the top of your middle finger when you came back A. I certainly did not see it. Neither did Vannatter or Lange for that matter. MR. PETROCELLI: Move to strike. THE COURT: Stricken. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Mr. Simpson, you keep bringing this up. You're relying on statements that you read about in reports, that Mr. Vannatter MR. BAKER: I object to that. That's argumentative. MR. PETROCELLI: Brought it up five times. All right. THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You're relying on statements, correct? A. No. I don't think I ever saw -- other than my interview, I don't think I've Q. You are familiar with statements made by Detective Vannatter and Lange that You're familiar with that, right? A. No, that's incorrect. Q. And that's why you keep talking about Vannatter and Lange because you're MR. BAKER: Objection. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) That's what you're trying to prove to this jury, right? MR. BAKER: I object. He's not trying to prove anything's. He answering THE COURT: Sustained. MR. PETROCELLI: Okay. Let's go to the next one, Steve, next photos. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) And by the way, we'll show you this one, Mr. Simpson, A. Yes? THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me. That number, please? MR. FOSTER: 172. (Exhibit 172 displayed.) MR. PETROCELLI: Do a fuller view of the whole hand. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Okay. Now, that's not a picture of your fourth finger, is it, sir? A. No. But it is a picture of my middle finger where I saw two marks. Q. Those two, they're both there? A. I don't know. I just see one. Q. You don't see the other cut there? Right here? A. No. Q. You don't see a cut right here or a redness right there on the picture taken A. Yeah. I see redness all in there. Q. You don't see that cut there, that mark there? MR. BAKER: I object. A. No. Q. And you only see the one down here, right? A. Got to pull it back. MR. PETROCELLI: Pull it back. (Indicating to Exhibit 172.) THE WITNESS: Yeah, I think -- MR. PETROCELLI: Pull it back more. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You don't see the fourth finger in there either, do you? A. No. Q. Then on the side -- A. Not on that picture, no. MR. PETROCELLI: Let's put up another one, same time taken, June 13, police MR. FOSTER: 171. MR. PETROCELLI: What's the last one? MR. FOSTER: 172. (Exhibit 171 displayed.) Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You see this picture? A. Yeah. Q. You see that cut up there, Mr. Simpson? A. Show me. Q. You don't see that injury up there on the top part of your finger? A. I see something there that doesn't comport with the earlier picture that I Q. Where did you get that, Mr. Simpson? A. I don't think that's a cut. I think that's -- Q. Where did you get that, fingernail gouging. MR. BAKER: I object. A. I don't think that's what that is. MR. BAKER: I object. Move to strike his characterization. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Where did you get that injury? A. I don't know. I don't think that's an injury. If it did, it would have been Q. You -- A. I didn't see an injury then, and I know that they were taking pictures of Q. So you -- are you now saying that it's possible you could have had another A. No, I'm not saying that. MR. PETROCELLI: Give me a distant shot on that of that picture. All the way Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) And you don't see the fourth finger photographed there, A. No. Q. You're not aware of any photos of the fourth finger taken by the police A. I'm sure if they saw something they would have taken a picture. Q. Are you aware of any such photo? A. I'm not aware of it. Q. Never seen it, have you? A. No. Q. Okay. MR. PETROCELLI: Put that up there, left hand photo. Q. (MR. PETROCELLI) See these marks here, sir? A. Yeah. THE REPORTER: What is the exhibit number, please? MR. GELBLUM: 714. MR. PETROCELLI: 714, Gina. I'm sorry. (Exhibit 714 displayed.) Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Where did you sustain these injuries, sir? A. Who knows. Q. You don't know? A. No. Q. Did you have them when you came back from Chicago? A. If I did, they're so small I don't think I would have noticed. Q. So you could have had those injuries? A. They could have been there. Q. And you could have had them -- sustained them on the evening of June 12, A. I wouldn't have any idea why they would have been there, so -- if you look Q. You don't dispute that those injuries would -- could have occurred on the A. No. Q. If you got them after you came back from Chicago, you cannot tell the jury A. That's correct. Q. Let's place there on -- MR. BAKER: After this one returns -- Q. This the same exhibit, Exhibit 714, left hand. How did you get these injuries, sir? A. Again, if they were there I wouldn't even saw them, so I wouldn't have known Q. You don't dispute that you could have gotten them on the evening of June 12? A. I could have gotten them at any time. Q. Including between 10 and 11 on the evening of June 12? A. I don't dispute I could have gotten this at any time. Q. Including that time? A. Including that time. MR. PETROCELLI: Thank you. THE COURT: 1:30, ladies and gentlemen. (At 12:00 P.M. a recess was taken until 1:30 P.M. of the same day.)
SANTA MONICA, CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT NO. WEQ (REGINA D. CHAVEZ, OFFICIAL REPORTER) (The jurors resumed their respective seats.) THE COURT: You may proceed. MR. PETROCELLI: Thank you, Your Honor. ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, the witness on the stand at the time of the luncheon DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) BY MR. PETROCELLI: Q. When you were in the Chicago hotel room packing up, Mr. Simpson, you checked A. No. Q. And it is true, sir, that there was not any blood anywhere in that hotel A. I don't know. Q. You did not see any blood anywhere else except on a hand towel, true? A. I don't even know if I saw it on that. Q. Okay. And you didn't see any blood on the telephone, for example, did you? A. No. Q. And after you cut your finger, or you saw blood on your finger, you did use A. Yes. Q. And you didn't, at the end of the visit to the room, before you departed, go A. No. Q. Okay. MR. PETROCELLI: Can you put on the towel. What exhibit number, Steve? MR. FOSTER: 1313. MR. PETROCELLI: 1313. (The instrument herein referred to as Photograph of a blood-stained hand towel (Exhibit 1313 displayed on TV screen.) Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) That's the hand towel that you believe that you used at A. I don't know. I would assume, so. Q. Well, don't assume anything. A. Okay. Q. Is that the only time you saw blood, was on that hand towel? A. I don't recall if I even saw blood on that hand towel. Q. That's a hand towel that you used to sweep the glass into the sink? A. I don't know. MR. PETROCELLI: Let me ask for the picture of the glass in the sink. What MR. FOSTER: 1316. THE COURT: 1316 on the TV monitor. (The instrument herein referred to as Photograph of a broken glass in a sink Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) That's how you left the sink, Mr. Simpson, with the A. Well, I don't know that, if that's how -- certainly there was glass in the Q. And you didn't see any blood on any piece of glass, true? A. I don't think I looked for any blood on the glass. Q. Whether or not you looked, you didn't see any, true? A. Well, I can't assume, so I don't know. Q. Now, when you said earlier that after this incident occurred where the glass A. I know that after I cut my hand at that point because I was going back and Q. So I take it, that by lying on this bed against these pillows, to talk on MR. BAKER: There's no foundation for the position he was in at the time he was MR. PETROCELLI: Excuse me. No speaking objections. MR. BAKER: I don't take advice from you, Mr. Petrocelli. THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer, if you can. A. Well, I think from what I can see of the side table, I probably had the Q. Possibly you were sitting with your back up against the headboard and A. I doubt that. Q. You doubt that? A. Yeah. Q. You wouldn't be sitting the other way, facing the headboard, would you, A. I would think that I was probably sitting facing this way (indicating) more And at a few times, they were calling me right back, after I was ready to go. Q. You mean sitting on the edge of the bed here (indicating) facing -- A. Just -- Q. -- facing the wall? A. Maybe that wall. Q. This wall (indicating)? Which wall? Why don't you point to it. A. I guess there was a wall out here somewhere. I may have been sitting that I was on the phone many, many times. And how I was sitting on the bed is not Q. And when blood was dropped in the center of the bed, it was from your left A. It could well have been. Q. You didn't bleed from your right hand? A. No. Q. Now, when you testified earlier that you put your your phone in the grip, A. Yes. Q. And your cell phone case, too, in the grip? A. Yes. Q. Now, when you got to the hotel room, did you remove the either the cell A. I doubt it. Q. Okay. Did you plug it in or anything? A. I doubt it. Q. And when you got ready to leave that hotel room, you said that you put on -- A. My memory is that I put on whatever I was wearing originally. I just threw Q. Okay. Well, you wore it to the hotel room, Mr. Simpson, this sort of stone-washed A. Yes. Q. And you testified at your deposition that when you got ready to leave this A. No. I think I put it on, and at some point, I knew I had gotten, from my At some point, I threw up, but that was on the airplane. And I don't recall Q. You did what? A. Changed into the black pants. Q. That you ultimately were seen wearing? A. Yes. Q. So you didn't leave that hotel room with those blue pants on, right? A. I don't think so. Q. And those blue pants had blood on them, right? A. Whatever. Whatever. I have a memory of getting on the airplane. I believe the girl brought me a Q. And you had blood on those pants, actually, from the night before, didn't A. No. Q. You had spilled (sic) some blood from your finger when you were going from A. No. Q. And put those pants on and left the hotel room, sir, in those blue-jean A. I kind of -- that's what I felt that I did. But I also remember -- I know I So I'm pretty sure I did it at the hotel, but I could have done it in the Q. And when you went downstairs, you were -- Well, before we get downstairs, you made three phone calls from your hotel room A. I would think at least three. Q. And he left you a a 708 cell phone number, right? A. I know I had a cell phone number because when I originally called him, he Q. And he -- A. -- and I called him at various times, wondering exactly where he was, until Q. Let's take it one by one. When you first called him, you asked him to come back to pick you up and take A. I told him I had to go. Q. And you called him at his cell phone number, right? A. I don't -- I'm pretty sure I called him at his house. Q. Right. And he lived 45 minutes away in the suburbs, didn't he, sir? A. No. He told me he lived pretty close is what he told me. Q. He lived 30 to 45 minutes away; did he not tell you that? A. No. He told me he lived relatively close. And I said, are you coming? And he said, yeah, I should be there -- I thought he said in a half-hour. Q. And now, you could have simply taken a cab from downstairs and not bothered A. When I got -- Q. Is that true? A. When I got -- Q. You could have gotten a cab? A. No, I couldn't have. Q. You could not have gone downstairs and asked the front desk to send you a A. I did that. Q. Okay. And there was no need, then, to call Mr. Merrill, was there? A. I had already called Mr. Merrill before I got downstairs. Q. You could have called downstairs and asked them to send a cab, too? A. I did that. I got -- when I got downstairs, I asked for a cab, and 15 Q. From your hotel room, you could have called immediately, say, you know, get A. I suppose I could have done that. Q. You didn't do that? A. He said he'd be there in a half-hour. Q. Now, you called Merrill once; you called Merrill twice; you called Merrill A. Yes. Q. The second time, Mr. Merrill told you on the telephone, he goes: "Look, I'm A. No, that's not true. Q. So if he testified under oath to that in his deposition, he would be lying; A. That's correct. Q. He -- A. He told me he was on his way and he'd get there as soon as he can. Q. And the truth of the matter is, Mr. Simpson, that the reason you were so A. No, that's not correct. Q. And in that golf club bag -- you put that other bag over near the Bentley, A. I suppose it was still in there, yes. Q. And that's why you really wanted Mr. Merrill back, right? A. No. I could have waited and took the 10 o'clock plane that Cathy add Q. Okay. Well, let me read now from your deposition. MR. PETROCELLI: Page 1976, Mr. Baker. MR. BAKER: Line? MR. PETROCELLI: 8. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) This concerns what you wore -- A. Yes. Q. -- when you left the hotel. What clothing did you put on when you left Okay? A. Um-hum. Well -- Q. That was your testimony under oath? A. That still basically is what I believe happened. Q. Okay. Now, when you went -- Now, when you went downstairs, you waited outside for Mr. Merrill, correct? A. When I went downstairs, I went to the desk; I checked out -- Q. I'm just asking you whether you waited outside; I'm trying to skip through A. No. By that time, I was waiting for the cab. Q. You were waiting outside. A. Before I walked outside the hotel, I told them to call me a cab. Whichever got there first, I would have taken. Q. And then, while you were waiting for a cab, you're sitting on a bench A. Yes. Q. And a Hertz colleague of yours drove up, a man named Jack Johnson, right? A. That's right. Q. And you told Jack Johnson that you were going to -- you were waiting to A. I think I told him, can somebody take me to the airport. Q. And he had with him an employee by the name of Raymond Kilduff, right? A. I have no idea. Q. And this fellow that was with Mr. Johnson ended up taking you to the A. Yeah. Q. Okay. And you told Mr. Johnson, before leaving for the airport, that you wanted to A. No, I don't think that's correct. I may have mentioned that Mr. Merrill was Q. If Mr. Kilduff said that, he would be mistaken, true? A. I think in substance, possibly no. But what I just said to you, I think, is Q. If Mr. Kilduff testified in his deposition that before leaving the airport, A. No. MR. BAKER: I object. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Is that correct? MR. BAKER: Hearsay and argumentative. A. That's correct. THE COURT: Just a minute; there's an objection. Sustained. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) After you got in the car with Mr. Kilduff -- MR. BAKER: May that be stricken? THE COURT: It's stricken. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) After you got in the car with Mr. Kilduff, you told Mr. A. I told him Mr. -- I think we tried to call Mr. Merrill, I'm not sure, and I Q. Now, in fact, while you were waiting to get in the car to leave to go to the A. Yes. And he was five minutes away or something. Q. And Mr. -- you told Mr. Merrill to get those clubs on the next flight, true? A. I told him I couldn't wait; if he can, put them -- if he can, go straight to Q. And when -- when you left that Chicago hotel room, sir, at no time did you A. I believe that I had changed before I got on the plane. I do recall being on the plane and my hand was bleeding pretty bad, and I think And I don't have a distinct memory of changing my pants on the airplane. It Q. You did not wear, when you left the hotel and on your way to the airport, a A. I think I had a blue-jean top, for sure. Q. Blue-jean pants? A. Pants, I believe I had -- I believe I put on the black pants before I left My memory is, I still did it -- I still did it in my hotel room. Q. Well, I read you your deposition, sir. A. Yes. Q. And you said you put on those black pants and white shirt when you -- before A. It's the same white shirt that I would have had on. Q. At no time is your testimony, here in court, that at no time while you were A. My memory is that I changed the pants before I left. I do remember throwing up on the airplane and bleeding, where the girl brought My memory is that I did it at my hotel room, before I left. Q. Now, when you were sitting, waiting for Mr. Merrill or a cab to pick you up, A. I don't know. I was trying to call everybody. Q. You tried to call Mr. Kaelin, right? A. I don't recall if that was before I got on the airplane or when I was Q. Well, you tried reaching him, right? A. I tried calling everybody. I called everybody. Q. We're only talking about Mr. Kaelin. A. Yes, he was one the people I tried to call. Q. You had never before called Mr. Kaelin from out of town, true? A. To my knowledge. Q. Is that true? A. I was never in this position before. Q. Is that true, sir? A. Yes. Q. And you were calling Mr. Kaelin to find out what he told the police, right? A. No. I was trying to get information on what was going on. Q. And you had admitted in your deposition, did you not, that you made an A. Not particularly. But obviously, Kato was very upset when I left -- at least that's what Allan So, yes, I may have made -- I don't recall if I made a connection or not. I Q. Well, let me read from page 1435 of your deposition, line 12. "When he talked about those noises, you were concerned that he might know "A. What he might have found, I don't know. "Q. So you made an association between the murder and those -- and the sounds "A. I may have." True, sir? A. I may have. I just said that. Q. You may have, in your own thinking, associated the sounds that Kaelin heard A. No. What I'm saying to you -- Q. True? A. No. I told you I may have -- I mean, at the point -- Q. Is it true that you may have made that association, sir? A. Certainly, since the time, I have made that association. But certainly at that time, I don't think that that was anything that was I just wanted to know from murder -- from Kato what was going on. Q. Sir, I wasn't asking you since that time. At the time you had the call with Kato -- A. Yes. Q. -- you may have made that association. True or untrue? A. I don't think so. At the time, I -- Q. True or untrue? A. I don't know. I can't answer it at the time. I don't -- my thought process was, just trying to get home and find out as much MR. PETROCELLI: Move to strike, Your Honor, all this additional material. THE COURT: That will remain. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, on the -- on the airplane, going back to Los A. More than likely. Q. And yet, you still gave an autograph or two, didn't you? A. Yes. Q. So you -- A. -- a lot easier doing that than to get into an argument with somebody about Q. You are perfectly able, even when you are feeling very low and devastated, A. Yes. MR. BAKER: Objection. Argumentative. THE WITNESS: I've seen people not get in arguments -- THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: -- into debates with the person -- Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) I'm only asking if you're capable of doing so, sir. Yes A. Evidently, was. Q. Thank you. And by the way, before Nicole's death, you were an actor of a number of years, A. That's debatable. Q. You appeared in many, many roles, true? A. Yes. Q. And you're -- in television and motion pictures right? A. That's correct. Q. And you -- also, you appeared on -- you were a pitch man for a number of A. Yes. Q. So you considered yourself a very effective salesman, didn't you? A. Salesman -- Q. Yeah. Q. -- for the companies that you were endorsing? A. Yes. I thought my representation was held -- well, with the companies that I chose Q. And you believe you knew how to act? A. I don't think I've ever called myself an actor in my life. I always said I I don't think anybody's ever called me an actor. Q. You recently appeared in a number of roles? A. That's correct. Q. Now, when you got back to LA, off that airplane -- Well, first of all, before I get to LA -- You had made a number of phone calls, as you said, right? A. Yes. Q. And included in those phone calls, were calls to get a criminal defense A. I was advised by the guy next to me that I should have a lawyer there, and I Q. Is it your testimony that the only reason that Howard Weitzman was waiting A. I think -- Q. Is that your testimony? A. I -- well, I think he told you the same thing. Q. That's your testimony? A. That's absolutely correct. Q. And if it wasn't for this perfect stranger, you would have had no concern A. That's correct. He was a lawyer. You mentioned his name; I can't recall his And I said no, he's my business lawyer. He said, "You should call your lawyer back and have someone who's more of a Q. So you're familiar with his testimony, aren't you? A. I'm familiar with what he told me. Q. You just recited his testimony, didn't you? A. I don't think they let him say that on the stand. Q. Okay. A. If I'm wrong there, you will show me, but I'm almost a hundred percent sure. Q. Now, when you got to LA, you were met there by Cathy Randa and Skip Taft, A. That's correct. Q. And they drove you, in Skip's car, to Rockingham, right? A. Yes. Q. And you arrived at Rockingham, not wearing a blue-jean outfit but this A. Black pants with a white shirt. MR. PETROCELLI: Can we have the footage of that? THE WITNESS: But the same white shirt. I believe I even wore that underneath my MR. FOSTER: Ready. Ready. MR. PETROCELLI: What exhibit number is this? That's a white shirt and dark pants you see on that video. THE WITNESS: That's the same white shirt I wore and -- that's the same white Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You put those items on at the Chicago hotel room? A. I believe the pants -- the shirt I put on right away. The pants may be Q. You didn't have blue jeans on, did you? A. No, I -- there, I did not. Q. And you didn't have them on in the airplane, did you? A. I believe -- MR. BAKER: Asked and answered. THE WITNESS: I changed in the hotel room. MR. BAKER: O.J., asked and answered. MR. PETROCELLI: Excuse me, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: As I told you before, I believe I changed at the hotel room. But I do recall while I was on the plane, that I not only bled on myself, I had THE COURT: Did you the get an exhibit number? MR. FOSTER: 228. MR. PETROCELLI: 228 -- 228 up there on the video. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You got to Rockingham. You were then taken down to the A. That's correct. Q. And you met at the police station with Detective Lange and Detective A. That's correct. Q. Okay. Now, in this statement, in regard to the question of a polygraph test, you told A. That's correct. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) They had asked you about taking a polygraph test and you A. I think I said, yeah, I've had some pretty weird thoughts, yes. Q. And you were concerned about taking the polygraph test because of those A. I think my biggest concern was, I was really tired I didn't understand what Q. And those weird thoughts that you had in your mind when they chatted with A. No, that's not correct. Q. They had to do with violence, true? A. I would think in one instance it was violence that Nicole hit my housekeeper Another instance when she was doing drugs with Faye Resnick, they crashed into Q. Excuse me. Can you stick with the question? A. That's my answer. Q. Now, when you were asked about the weird thoughts, it is your testimony that A. No, more an act of violence from Nicole hitting my housekeeper, that my Q. Well, let's stick with the housekeeper situation. A. Yes. Q. You had in mind an act of violence involving Nicole, true? A. An act of violence by Nicole. Q. An act of violence by Nicole against your housekeeper of a number of years, A. Yes. I mean this was in just -- Q. Excuse me. Just answer the question. A. Yes. Q. And you did not have in mind, sir, any kind of thoughts in your own A. That's correct. Q. So you were concerned that you might not pass this polygraph test because MR. BAKER: Objection, there's no foundation for that, it's argumentative, Your THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Is that true, sir? A. No. Q. And in fact, what you said at your deposition is that what you were thinking A. Yes. Q. And then you said at page 1023 -- MR. BAKER: Line? Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Starting at 1022, line 25, "I kind of at one point" -- MR. BAKER: Can you give me a second. MR. PETROCELLI: Yes. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) 1022, line 25. In talking about this question of weird thoughts that you had about Nicole, you Do you recall giving that testimony? A. Yeah, part of that. But Michelle would have got beaten up. Michelle couldn't Q. Excuse me. Do you recall giving that testimony? A. Yes. Q. So hours after your wife's murder, when you're questioned about this A. That's not true. Q. That's what you said sir, correct? A. That's not what I said hours after. I think what my process was is that I As a matter of fact, that was something that they were concerned about too. Q. And you did take the test, and you failed it, didn't you? MR. BAKER: Objection. A. That's not correct. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You failed it, true? A. No. MR. BAKER: Objection. A. That's not correct. Q. You got a minus 22? MR. BAKER: Your Honor, I'm going to object to this. MR. PETROCELLI: Your Honor -- MR. BAKER: I want to approach. This is an outrage. THE COURT: Approach the bench. (The following proceedings were held at the bench, with the reporter.) MR. PETROCELLI: First of all, the witness himself just volunteered himself how Trying to argue -- MR. BAKER: Well -- MR. PETROCELLI: -- Trying to argue that he had taken what he would have asked, And he has absolutely opened the door on that issue, and I am entitled to MR. BAKER: Well, two things: One, he never took a lie detector test. Two, he didn't fail a lie detector test. And three, a letter sent to Vannatter and Lange, as well as also the D.A.'s Now, to infer that he has taken a lie detector test and failed it is absolutely MR. PETROCELLI: I've not inferred he -- I'm asking the question. He opened the MR. BAKER: No. MR. PETROCELLI: We know he went to take the test the 14th, 15th, at the offices It's all outlined in the book. I'm going to ask him about it, Your Honor, particularly since he opened the MR. BAKER: No, no. There's a couple of things -- and I want to make a record That is, to me, absolutely without foundation. And the -- in the law anywhere, we have never waived any attorney-client And he has never waived it. And I think the Court's ruling is improper. And I think for them to bring this up is terribly improper. That is all because And it's my understanding, presently he's under investigation by the state bar That doesn't waive his privilege. Only the holder of the privilege can waive MR. PETROCELLI: We've heard, Your Honor, one month ago, when this book came Notwithstanding the Court's gag order, he talked about how Mr. Simpson went And the point is, basically, this -- not only did the witness get it out to the MR. BAKER: That is absolutely -- THE COURT: Are you going to address the issue of the book once more? MR. PETROCELLI: The book -- this book was put out by Simpson's colleague, This book has been in the works for a long time. They never once filed any You can't simply allow material to go out there and then claim it's privileged That is an absolute waiver. A waiver doesn't have to be in writing. Waivers are frequently implications and THE COURT: Okay. MR. BAKER: Wait a second. That is not true. His representations are absolutely Peter Neufeld wrote every lawyer in this case, as Mr. Simpson's lawyer, he And for him to say we have acquiesced and waived it is absolutely an absolute MR. PETROCELLI: Absolute filed for injunctive relief -- MR. BAKER: Let me finish. MR. PETROCELLI: Lower your voice. MR. BAKER: No, I will not lower my voice. THE COURT: I think you better lower your voice. MR. BAKER: I think it's an outrage. Simpson has done everything possible to stop that book. We represented to the Court and read portions of a letter to this Court, Now, to say that he's waived it by acquiescence is a bold-faced lie. It hasn't THE COURT: When did Mr. Simpson first get notice that it was going to be MR. BAKER: That the book was going to be published? THE COURT: Um-hum. MR. BAKER: About mid-September. I had a conversation with Mr. Scheck in early September, when they indicated And there was a plethora of communications back and forth ordering them not to. THE COURT: Was there any effort to file a -- file for an injunction? MR. BAKER: My understanding is they got a representation that the book wasn't But Mr. Neufeld -- we'll get the communications, and he can wait on this until MR. PETROCELLI: This tells the tale. (Indicating to transcript.) This is a red MR. BAKER: That's absolutely not true. MR. PETROCELLI: Why does Mr. Baker tell the jury that Mr. Simpson was more than This -- that's the only inference he wanted the jury to draw. THE COURT: Okay. I'll stand on my ruling. Overruled. (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Mr. Simpson, you were testifying a few moments ago about Do you recall that? A. Yes. Q. Now, in fact, Mr. Simpson, before you communicated that position to the A. I don't know. Q. You went to the office of some person on Wilshire Boulevard and sat down and A. That's not true. I mean that's not true in totality. Q. Well, what do you mean, "in totality?" A. We didn't take a lie detector test. What I was asking him is how did it work, and I wanted to understand it. And he Q. And he hooked you up to the process and started asking you questions about A. I don't know if he went that far with it. Q. Okay. At the end of that process, you scored a minus 22, true? A. I don't know what the score was. Q. And you understood that was a polygraph test, right? A. I understood that once I finished, and I understood it, that I was willing Q. And you understood that what you were doing that day was a polygraph test, A. Not the way they explained it to me, no. Q. You were wired up to a polygraph machine, were you not? A. They wired me up to something and they -- the guy started to explain to me Once I understood how it worked, I told my lawyers, let's do it. And we wanted it to be in evidence. Q. And the minus 22, by the way, is a score indicating extreme deception, true? A. I don't -- MR. BAKER: Your Honor, I object to that. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. BAKER: There's no foundation for that at all. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Well, Mr. Simpson, when I asked you in your deposition, MR. BAKER: Page? Wait a minute. MR. PETROCELLI: You got it, Mr. Baker? MR. BLASIER: I'm getting there. (Indicating to computer.) Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, you went to this polygraph examiner's office on A. I don't know. Q. It was that time frame, right? A. I believe it was that week; it was -- that week is kind of fuzzy for me. Q. And I asked you in your deposition in January: (Reading) Question: "Have you "A. No. "Q. I was going to say, since Nicole's death, have you taken a polygraph test? "A. No." That was untrue, wasn't it, sir? A. As far as I know, I didn't take a polygraph test. Q. You did, in fact, sit for that test, didn't you? A. That's incorrect. Q. When you returned from the police station, you went back to your office in A. Yes. Q. And then you went back to your house and had some people over that night, A. That -- there was a lot of people there coming in and out. Q. And you had a conversation with a fellow named Ron Shipp that night? A. I don't recall having a conversation with Ron. Q. And the subject of a polygraph test was on your mind because the police had A. No. Q. And you asked -- Mr. Shipp is a -- was a friend of yours, right? A. We were friendly, yes. Q. And he had been a member of the police department for a number of years, A. That's correct. Q. And you understood that he knew about such things as blood tests, and DNA A. I don't think I ever thought about that, no. Q. And you only had some close friends and relatives over to your house that A. No. All types of people that I knew casually, people that I knew well; Q. Mr. Kardashian was there, right? A. Yes. Q. Your long-time friend, Joe Delaney, right? A. Joe came at one point. Q. Your children, Jason and Arnelle? A. And friends of theirs. Q. Your mother's two sisters, brother-in-law, and your assistant, Cathy Randa, A. Among all the many people coming in and out, yes. Q. At some point in the evening, I think you had a private conversation with A. No, I never had a private conversation. Q. And you asked -- MR. BAKER: Excuse me. I'm going to object. A. No, I never had a conversation with Shipp. Q. Isn't it true that you asked Mr. Shipp -- MR. BAKER: I would object, Your Honor. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) -- about -- MR. BAKER: I would object. MR. PETROCELLI: Excuse me. MR. BAKER: I would object based on that last answer. There's no foundation. MR. PETROCELLI: I don't have to accept that answer. THE COURT: All right. Overruled as admission of party, if you can prove it up. MR. PETROCELLI: Absolutely, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You had a conversation with a man named Ron Shipp, and A. That's incorrect. Q. And you asked Mr. Shipp what -- in effect, what would happen if you took a A. That's absolutely wrong. Q. And you asked Mr. Shipp how long it took for DNA tests to come back, true? A. No. Q. Okay. Now, the next morning, you got up and you went over to your office at Brentwood A. At some point, yes. Q. This is, like, Tuesday morning now? A. Yes. Q. The 14th. And you had your secretary, Cathy Randa, call this fellow up in A. I believe so. I don't know if -- that he called -- I did know -- yeah, I may Q. You had asked Mr. Merrill in the conversation about your golf clubs, right? A. No. Q. The subject of your golf clubs came up, correct? A. Not with me, no. Q. Did the subject of the golf clubs come up at all in your telephone A. I don't recall. Q. Yes or no? A. I don't recall. I know I got on the phone with him. I was just apologizing Q. So is the answer to my question that the golf clubs didn't come up at all in A. I don't know if -- he may have said something to me that he did make the Q. I'm not asking you if you questioned him. Did the topic come up, yes or no? A. I don't know -- I don't know. Q. Did -- A. I know that I -- the conversation with him was me apologizing to him, cause Q. Now, this is a man that you had never met other than the day before, right? A. He's a very nice guy. That's correct. Q. He drove you to the airport? A. Yes. Q. And you think you were somewhat abrupt with him the day after you found out A. No, the times that I spoke with him after I found out about the death, I Q. And so you were rude to him because you were trying to -- frantically A. Yes, basically. Q. And the next day, even though your ex-wife had just been murdered, you felt A. I think when we got to the office -- Cathy did a number of things that day Q. You apologized to Mr. Merrill? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Now, right after you got off the phone call, Mr. Simpson, is it not true that A. That's not correct. Q. Isn't it true that you specifically asked Mr. Kardashian at the office, in A. That's not correct. Q. And isn't it not -- is it also true, sir, that you were advised by them, A. That's not correct. MR. BAKER: Object on the grounds when he gets a negative answer, his next This may invade the attorney-client privilege. THE COURT: Sustained as to the latter. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Well, Mr. Kardashian was not there as an attorney based THE COURT: You said Shapiro also. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Let me ask you this: Shapiro -- Mr. Kardashian, he told A. To make a correction, at that moment I was looking to Bob for legal advice To answer your question, the answer is no. Q. Okay. And it's your testimony, sir, that you did not leave the office with Mr. A. Eventually we did, yes. Q. But it was not your purpose to go get the clubs, right? A. That's correct. Q. You did not ask Mr. Kardashian to take you to get the clubs, correct? A. That's correct. Q. But after you left the office, you did end up, somehow, at the airport and A. Yes, after we did a few things, we did do that. Q. And you testified in your deposition that you were feeling low and you just A. No, we were driving around after going by Nicole's house and we were waiting Q. You happened to be near the airport, driving around? A. We were on Bundy, going south on Bundy at the time, yes. Q. Well, Bundy is nowhere near the airport? A. Well, I take Bundy to the airport many times. I think it's 8 minutes from Q. And you said, look, since we're near the airport, why don't we hop out and A. Yeah, there was nothing to do, I was trying to kill 50 minutes waiting for Q. Then you got those clubs, put them in Kardashian's car? A. Well, Kardashian put them in his car. Q. Rolls Royce, right? A. Yes. Q. You and he drove in that Rolls with the golf clubs, back to his house, A. Yes. And the kids were getting there about the time we got there. Q. And you stayed in the house the rest of the week, right? A. I stayed at his house essentially the rest of the week. Q. And there was one point in that week, maybe that same day, you went out to A. I think that there was one day during the week that I was in the house with Q. And you went into the garage one day and went into the bag and opened it up, A. Yes. Q. Okay. Now, you mentioned a couple times about your kids. In fact, you did not see or speak to your children until late afternoon on A. I believe it was about 2 o'clock, 1:30, 2 o'clock, yes. Q. And you testified in your deposition that the reason you didn't talk to your A. Partially. I called at one point to talk to the kids and ended up talking to Q. You wanted to compose yourself first before you saw your children who had A. No, that's wrong. Q. Is that true? A. That's -- that was wrong. Q. That's all, don't need to go any further. A. That's wrong, what you just said. Q. Okay. Now, on the 15th of June, you went to Dr. Huizenga's office and -- we've seen A. I believe so. Q. And as of that point in time on the 15th of June, you had three cuts and A. I don't know. Q. And if that's what Dr. Huizenga said, you wouldn't dispute that, right? A. No. Q. And other than the one that you think -- on the finger near the joint -- A. Correct. Q. Now, on the 17th of June, you were sleeping over at the Kardashians' house A. Yes. Q. And you had a whole legal team assembled over there, right? A. Bob Kardashian and Bob Shapiro. Q. You had people like Dr. Henry Lee and Dr. Michael Baden there as well? A. Yeah. I don't think I really knew who they were at the time. Q. And you had Dr. Huizenga there as well? A. Yes. Q. And folks were examining you and taking photographs and so forth, correct? A. Yes. Q. And at some point you were informed that morning that you would be arrested, A. That's correct. MR. PETROCELLI: Your Honor, this might be -- or is it too early? THE COURT: No, it's fine. 10 minutes, ladies and gentlemen. (Recess.) (Jurors resumed their respective seats.) (Counsel displayed exhibit No. 205 diagram entitled "875 South Bundy Drive Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Mr. Simpson, you told the police that you did not cut A. That's correct. Q. Okay. So you are aware that blood matching your blood was found at Bundy, correct? MR. BAKER: Argumentative, Your Honor. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Are you aware of that? THE COURT: Overruled. A. I was told that, yes, that -- that was the representation. Q. And you've seen exhibits like this one that indicate the locations where the (Indicating Exhibit 205.) A. Correct. Q. And prior to the evening of June 12, 1994, you didn't bleed at Bundy at any A. Not to my knowledge, no. Q. You don't recall bleeding at Bundy at any of those spots where blood was A. Other than the backyard possibly. Not to my knowledge. Q. Okay. Sir, do you have any explanation whatsoever why blood found matching your blood A. Represented to be my blood, no. Q. You have no explanation whatsoever for why each of those blood drops that A. Correct. Q. And you have no explanation whatsoever why blood and DNA matching yours were A. Correct. MR. PETROCELLI: Steve, what exhibit was the one I just had, for the record? And which one is this when you get it. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) I've put up a board, Mr. Simpson, entitled "Rockingham (Exhibit 208 displayed.) MR. FOSTER: Previous one was 205 and this one is 208. MR. PETROCELLI: This is Exhibit 208 and the previous Bundy board was -- Steve? MR. FOSTER: 205. MR. PETROCELLI: Exhibit 205. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) By the way, in the earlier board I showed you, Bundy, A. The board you just had there? Q. Yes, when you said you may have bled sometime in the backyard. Do you recall? A. The back driveway area, yes. Q. The back driveway in the alley? A. Yes. Q. You weren't there to you suggest that you had dropped those blood droplets A. No. Q. You recognize the photos here as the interior of your house? A. Yes. Q. And now, you see -- let's take these two photos in the lower left-hand A. Yes. Q. Okay. Now, that's your bathroom floor, right? A. Yes. Q. You have any explanation, sir, how blood found on the bathroom floor, that A. Well, one, I don't know if they ever determined it matched my blood. That's Q. Did you bleed on the bathroom floor on the evening of June 12, yes or no? A. I don't know. Q. Didn't you testify previously in this -- in this courtroom, that the only A. Yes. Q. Okay. So you did not see any blood on the bathroom floor; is that what you're saying? A. That's correct. Q. You have no explanation for how your blood got there? A. If it's my blood. I don't know if they ever tested it. I would assume it Q. You would assume that? A. Yes. Q. But you don't know? A. Correct. Q. Now, you see the picture of the -- the foot of your bed, right? A. Yes. Q. And you see the rug there? A. Yes. Q. And that's your bedroom, right? A. Yes. Q. Those are your socks on the floor? A. That's what they tell me, yes. Q. They look like socks you own, right? A. Yes. Q. And do you have any explanation, sir, for how blood matching your blood got A. No. Q. You have any explanation for how blood matching Nicole's blood got on those A. No. Q. And you have any explanation for how blood matching yourself got on the A. No. Q. -- floor? A. No. Q. You -- it's your testimony that you can't tell the jury how any of that A. Correct. MR. PETROCELLI: Do you have the cable? (Counsel displays Exhibit 2137 entitled "Blood Drops at 360 North Rockingham MR. PETROCELLI: What exhibit number is this board? MR. FOSTER: 2137. MR. PETROCELLI: Which? 2137? MR. FOSTER: The picture. MR. PETROCELLI: On the television monitor is 2137. Can you focus that a little bit. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Do you recognize that? A. It looks like it's the back side of my house. Q. Okay. That's the area behind Kato Kaelin's room, correct? A. It could be, yes. Q. And you see this TV cable coming down the side of the wall? A. Yes. Q. Now, you have any explanation, sir, for how the blood on that cable got MR. BAKER: There's been no such -- there's been no foundation that that's THE COURT: Overruled. MR. PETROCELLI: We did presumptively. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You may answer. A. I never knew there was blood on that cable. Q. Let's assume there was blood? A. Yes. Q. You have any explanation how it got there? A. No. MR. BAKER: I object to the assumption. THE COURT: Overruled. A. No. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) By the way, on this area right opposite the air A. That's correct. Q. And there's a fence that goes down the whole side of this property, right? A. That's correct. Q. And this fence, when you're standing on your side of the property, is about A. I would think so. Q. On the other side of the property, on the Salinger side, it goes down A. I don't -- possibly. I don't ever really remember looking at it. Q. There's foliage above the fence as you go all the way down this south A. There's foliage very thick going all the way up. Q. There's an area right opposite the Kato Kaelin room where there's an opening A. I don't believe so. Q. You sure? A. Yes. Q. Where there's an opening, and then there's some spikes at the top of the A. No I didn't see that. Q. And if a person were motivated enough he could climb from the Salinger side MR. BAKER: Argumentative, speculative. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. Didn't you -- Well, we have a deposition. I'll come back to that. MR. PETROCELLI: Let's look at the other board, which is that exhibit. MR. FOSTER: 155. MR. PETROCELLI: 155. Let me just turn it a little bit. (Indicating to Exhibit 155.) Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Mr. Simpson, you see the various places where the police A. Yes. Q. And do you have any explanation for how those blood drops got there? A. No. Q. And do you have any explanation for why those blood drops matched your A. No. Q. By the way, that dog sitting there in the middle of the driveway, that's A. Yes. Q. Okay. (Counsel displays Exhibit 211 entitled "Bronco Evidence.") MR. PETROCELLI: What subject number is this? MR. FOSTER: 211. MR. PETROCELLI: This board is the "Bronco Evidence" board. Out of the way. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Do you see this board showing where blood was found in A. Yes. Q. Okay. Do you have any explanation for why blood matching yours was found near the A. No. Q. Do you have any explanation for why blood matching Nicole's was found on the A. No. Q. Have you any explanation for why blood matching Ron Goldman was found on the A. No. Q. Or why blood matching yours was found there? A. No. Q. Or why blood matching yours was found on the inside door panel, right where A. No. Q. -- using your left hand? A. No. Q. You do use your left hand when you exit the door, do you not? A. I would have, unless my arthritis was kicking up. I would imagine so, yes. Q. You're sitting there in your driver seat, you're getting ready to get out of A. Most of the time, yes. Q. And your left middle finger would contact the area right where that red spot A. It possibly could. Q. Right where you have the scar on your finger, true? A. Possibly could. Q. You have no explanation for any -- why any of that blood was there, true? A. That's correct. Q. Now, you don't recall bleeding in the back alleyway or back driveway of A. No. Q. Okay. You are aware that there is a receipt showing the purchase of two pairs of Aris A. Yes. Q. Now, you had a place in New York, correct? A. Yes. Q. And you and Nicole would stay there during football season or she would A. That's right. Q. And the two of you would shop at Bloomingdale's and in Manhattan, your A. Yeah, among other places. Yes. Q. And Nicole would buy you things there, right? A. I don't recall ever -- her ever buying me anything -- Q. She would by you Christmas presents, for example? A. She would buy Christmas presents for -- she would have a list of about 100 Q. That included you, right? A. I'm sure she bought me gifts. I don't recall her ever buying me anything from Bloomingdale's. Q. And she bought you some gloves from time to time as gifts, right? A. Never. MR. PETROCELLI: And let's put on the photo, Steve. 646, 655, 660, 642, Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) That's a photograph of you, correct, Mr. Simpson? (Indicating to Photo.) A. Correct. Q. And you're wearing some gloves there, some black gloves, right? A. Correct. Q. From looking at that picture can you tell the style and make of those A. No. MR. PETROCELLI: Let's look at the next one. MR. FOSTER: 655. (Exhibit 655 displayed.) Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) That's another photograph of you, right? (Indicating 655.) A. Correct. Q. And you're wearing these gloves at football games where you're acting as an A. That's correct. Q. Okay. MR. PETROCELLI: And can you close up on the gloves. Right there. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Can you identify those gloves, Mr. Simpson? A. No. Q. The two pairs that we've shown you in these two pictures, these are a pair A. I wouldn't know. Q. Size extra large? A. I don't -- wouldn't know. Q. You -- when say you don't know, you don't know one way or the other, right? A. Correct. Q. So you -- so they could be, but you just don't know, right? A. Correct. Q. Okay. So you're not saying they're not Aris leather light gloves, correct? A. Correct. MR. FOSTER: 660. (Exhibit 660 displayed.) Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Same question. You can't say one way or the other what A. Correct. Q. So you can't say that that is not an Aris leather light, size extra large, A. Correct. MR. PETROCELLI: And 642 -- MR. FOSTER: 646. MR. PETROCELLI: 646. Excuse me. Pair of brown gloves. (Exhibit 646 displayed.) Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You had a pair of black gloves and you had a pair of A. I had numerous -- Q. Including -- A. -- gloves, light brown -- Q. Including black and brown? A. Brown and off-browns, and various gloves. Q. You would agree that you had pair of black and a pair of brown of a A. Yes. Q. Okay. And that type would be an Aris leather light glove, size extra large, correct? A. I wouldn't know that. Q. But you're not in a position to say that it wasn't such a glove, right? A. That's correct. Q. Okay. Now, these football photos of you wearing these gloves span a period of some A. Yeah. What do you mean these gloves? Q. The pictures that I just showed you, they were starting in January, '91, was MR. BAKER: I object to Mr. Petrocelli testifying. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Do you know that, sir. THE COURT: Look at the photos again, and if you want to see if you can identify Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Talking about the time period involved. A. I wore gloves during that time period, but I went through a lot of gloves Q. Between January 1991 and January 1994, you wore gloves of the type and color A. Yes, I wore various gloves, and I went through a lot of gloves in that Q. Now, sir, you have been unable since the time of Nicole's death on June 12, A. As far as I know, I've only been able to produce one brown glove that (Indicating to TV screen.) Q. We're just talking about these gloves. A. I don't know what those gloves are. Q. The gloves that you're wearing in these photographs, the ones that just I A. Well, I can't tell if this is one of the ones that -- the lambskin interior Q. You have not brought these gloves to this courtroom, true, sir? A. Well, there's one glove. You guys have it. Q. And it is not the same glove? A. I couldn't tell. Q. Okay. A. I couldn't tell. Q. And other than this one pair of gloves that you say you've shown us -- A. Not one pair. It's one glove. Q. One single glove? A. Yes. Q. You're unable to bring, and have been unable to bring since Nicole's death, A. Unless that one glove is one of these gloves, 'cause I can't tell the Q. Okay. And we asked you numerous times in the course of this case to produce gloves A. The police took all my gloves before I got home so I haven't been able to Q. You're saying the police took those gloves; is that what you're -- what A. I'm saying I've been unable to bring any gloves in. Q. You don't know where those gloves are, do you, sir? A. I don't know where the black ones are, the black ones or any of the gloves Q. Let's just focus on these gloves. You do not know where those brown gloves are, that you are wearing in that A. As I said -- Q. Can you answer that yes or no? A. I'm attempting to answer it, sir. As I said, unless the one glove that you guys have somewhere is this particular (Indicating to Exhibit 646.) Q. I will represent to you and the Court, and I'm sure your counsel will agree, A. Well, I never gave you a glove. Q. The one glove you showed us, or whatever, the single glove your talking Okay? A. Okay. Q. So we can forget about that glove. A. Okay. MR. BAKER: There's argumentative, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) I want to talk about this case. I would like you to tell us where that glove is? Where are those two gloves you're wearing on your hands in that photograph? A. I've answered that I wouldn't know a leather light glove from another glove. Q. Forget that single glove, okay? A. Yes. Q. Tell me where those gloves are? A. I can only answer it the way -- MR. BAKER: Asked and answered about four times. MR. PETROCELLI: He keeps bringing up this other glove and it's not the glove. THE COURT: Excuse me. MR. PETROCELLI: It's been so stipulated. THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Please answer the question. A. That's the best -- Q. Where are the gloves you're wearing in the photograph? A. I have no idea. Q. You have no idea? A. No. Q. None? A. I don't know where any of my gloves are. Q. Those gloves? A. Those gloves or any of my gloves. Q. And you are aware, sir, that gloves matching the description of those gloves A. The brown pair they say were brown gloves, and I've been unable to find the Q. You're aware that gloves matching the description of the ones you are A. Yes. Q. Those are the gloves used by the killer, you're aware of that? A. I'm not aware of that, no. Q. You're not aware of that? A. No. Q. Now, you also are aware that there was a knit cap found at the Bundy crime A. Yes. Q. A dark knit cap? A. Yes. Q. Now, you have knit caps just like that one, don't you, sir? A. I don't know. MR. PETROCELLI: Can you put the photo up of the knit cap. (Exhibit 2218 displayed.) THE REPORTER: What exhibit is that? MR. FOSTER: Next in order, 2218. MR. PETROCELLI: 2218. Little more of a close-up, Steve. (The instrument herein described as a photograph of a dark knit cap with the Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) That's one of your knit caps? A. I don't know. Q. You had knit caps like that in your house that you used for various purposes A. In the past, when I used to ski, I've had numerous ski outfits, and I'm sure Q. You owned that cap, the one depicted in the picture on the TV screen, as of A. I don't know what knit cap this is. Q. You owned caps like that as of June 12, 1994, correct? A. I could have, but I don't know because I haven't been skiing in a while, so Q. Is it your belief that that cap was acquired by you? MR. BAKER: Let him finish the answer, please. A. I wouldn't know. I haven't seen my ski clothes in so long, I wouldn't know. Q. So whatever knit caps you had as of June 1, 1994 would be the ones that were A. Yes. Q. If it included that knit cap on the television screen, you wouldn't dispute A. Correct. Q. Okay. Now, you recall -- well, withdrawn. Were you or were you not wearing a dark sweat suit at any time on the evening A. I was not. Q. Now, I asked you at your deposition whether you owned any dark sweat suit in A. Yes. Q. Okay. MR. PETROCELLI: You have the photo, Steve. Put it up. (Exhibit 2219 displayed.) Q. You remember this photo, Mr. Simpson, don't you? A. No. Q. It's a dark sweat suit that you're wearing? A. No, I don't remember the photo. Q. You remember shooting a video, an exercise video put out by Playboy in May, A. Yes. Q. May 25, 26, 27? A. Yes. Q. A couple weeks before Nicole's death, right? A. Yes. Q. And that's you wearing a dark sweat suit, right? A. If it is, it's their clothes. Q. They provided the wardrobe to you, right? A. Yes. Q. Okay. THE COURT REPORTER: May I have a number on that, please? MR. FOSTER: It's similar to the photograph in 770. MR. PETROCELLI: It's 2219. (The instrument herein described as a photograph of Mr. Simpson wearing a black Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You know the gentleman next to you, right? He did the A. Yes. MR. PETROCELLI: Why don't you get a close-up on the dark sweatpants. Back up. (Indicating to Elmo screen.) Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) And that was one of the items that you wore in the A. Possibly. Q. You're wearing it, aren't you? A. Yes. Can I see that other picture then again. MR. PETROCELLI: Put it on. MR. FOSTER: This is 2220. (The instrument herein referred to as Photo of O.J. Simpson in White shirt and (Exhibit 2220 displayed.) THE COURT: Which one is this one? MR. FOSTER: 2219. MR. PETROCELLI: 2219 is this picture. The second picture is 2220. Q. This sweat suit outfit, you can't produce it either? A. It wasn't mine. Q. You knew it was -- it was available? A. To wear during the shoot. Q. You didn't have to give it back, Mr. Simpson, did you? A. If I would have asked for it I'm pretty sure he would have given it to me. (Referring to Exhibit 2219.) Q. There was a wardrobe person assigned for this video? A. Yes. Q. She provided to you the wardrobe, right? A. I don't recall if it was a girl or guy. Q. Yeah, her name is Leslie Gardner, correct? A. I don't recall. Q. And Leslie Gardner would certainly not know whether you kept the sweat suit MR. BAKER: I object. THE WITNESS: I think so. MR. BAKER: Calls for speculation, sheer speculation on the part of this witness THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) That was part of her duties to provide the wardrobe to A. I don't recall her, but they had a wardrobe person, yes. Q. Whoever the person is? A. Yes. Q. You dealt with that person, right? A. I would assume so. Q. And they gave you the clothing you wore, correct? A. They provided it the day that we worked out there for the video. Q. If it returned you would have given it back to that person? A. I never returned it because I never took it. I tried it -- I did it and they Q. And your testimony is that you never saw it again, right? A. That's correct. Q. Okay. MR. PETROCELLI: We have to get the other board. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) So you're not able -- you were not able as of June 12, A. I didn't have any. Q. Not a single one? A. I didn't have any. Q. Correct? A. That's correct. Q. You saw those Bruno Magli shoes that were discussed in court, right? A. Yes. Q. And you heard the testimony that those Bruno Magli shoes, size 12, left the A. Yes. Q. And you wear size 12, right? A. At times, yeah, among other shoes. Yes, anywhere from 11, 12, 13. Q. Including size 12? A. That's right. Q. Those Reeboks are size 12? A. I don't know. Q. The ones you gave to Lange? A. I don't know. But they probably were. Q. They probably were? A. They could have been. Q. Okay. Now, your deposition was taken in this case in January of 1996, sir? A. I don't know. I don't recall. Q. You do recall, though, that your deposition was taken at a time before the A. I don't recall that, no. Q. You wouldn't dispute that if the dates bore that out, right? A. No. Q. Okay. And you recall that I asked you if you ever owned the Bruno Magli shoes, Bruno Do you recall what your answer was? A. Yes. Q. Okay. You testified that you would -- MR. BAKER: Page and line, please. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) 1305. You testified at your deposition that you, quote, MR. BLASIER: Line, please. MR. GELBLUM: 10. MR. PETROCELLI: Got it, Mr. Baker? MR. BLASIER: Not yet. MR. PETROCELLI: Let me know when you have it. MR. BAKER: Go ahead. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) I'll read it. Page 1305, starting at line 10: "Q. Did you ever buy shoes that you knew were Bruno Magli shoes? "A. No. "Q. How do you know that? "A. Because I know. If Bruno Magli makes shoes that look like the shoes that he "Q. You thought those were ugly-ass shoes? "A. Yes. "Q. Why were they ugly-ass shoes? "A. Because in my mind, they were. "Q. What about them was ugly, Mr. Simpson? "A. The look of them, the style." Do you recall giving that testimony? A. Yes. And the color of them. Q. Now, after that deposition testimony, this picture of you appeared in the A. Yes. Q. And that is you, Mr. Simpson, is it not? A. It looks like me. Q. And you did attend a football game at Rich Stadium in Orchard Park, New A. I could have, yes. Q. What do you mean, you could have? Did you or did you not? A. I don't know. Q. Do you remember being there? A. I don't know the dates, but I certainly attended a lot of games in Buffalo. Q. Well, how's this for refreshing your recollection? The last time that you A. I don't recall when that was. Q. That would have been that game, correct? A. I went to two or three games, sometimes, a week, so I wouldn't know. Q. There's two in a season; there's one at Buffalo, there's one at Miami. That A. If you say that is that game, I'll accept that. I'm just --. Q. Thank you. A. -- telling you, I don't remember what dates what games were played. Q. Okay. And you don't remember much about the games, sir? A. No, not really. Q. You know who won? A. I hope Buffalo. Q. But you don't remember, do you? A. No. Q. And your routine was to get there before the game and, you know, do some A. Yes. Q. And you recognize what part of the stadium you're walking in there, sir? A. It appears to be the end zone. MR. PETROCELLI: By the way, what exhibit number is this board? MR. FOSTER: 2211. MR. PETROCELLI: For the record, we have Exhibit 2211. (Exhibit 2211 displayed.) Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, Mr. Simpson you are wearing Bruno Magli shoes, size A. That photograph depicts that, but I don't -- I wouldn't -- wasn't wearing Q. Well, are you saying those are not Bruno Magli shoes? A. They look like Bruno Magli shoes, yes. Q. But you're not wearing them; is that what you're saying? A. I'm -- that's what I'm saying. Q. How can that be, sir? A. I don't know. I saw a picture of Mark Fuhrman and I playing golf together, and I know I Q. What does this have to do with Mark Fuhrman? A. I don't know. You asked me how can that be. I'm no expert on pictures, but I saw a picture of Q. What you're saying to the jury is, that picture is a fraud? A. I believe so, yes. Q. What do you mean, you believe so. Is it or is it not? A. I would say it is. MR. BAKER: I would object. That's argumentative. He indicated he doesn't have THE COURT: Overruled. He may state his opinion. MR. BAKER: That's fine. I have no objection. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) State your opinion. Is it or is it not a fraud? A. My opinion is that it is a fraud. Q. Okay. What part of that picture is fraudulent? A. I couldn't tell you exactly. But anything that below my -- I have -- I had a As I've told you in a deposition, the coat, I can't really tell. I've worn all The belt, I can't really tell. The pants look a little big on me. And the shoes, I don't know, weren't my shoes. Q. You're absolutely positive about the shoes? A. I'm pretty sure. Q. Pretty sure? A. Well, I am sure. Q. There is no doubt in your mind, is there, sir? A. No, there's not. Q. There's no doubt? A. I said no. Q. None, right? A. For the third time, no. Q. And give us your definitive opinion: Are those pants yours or not? Yes or A. I couldn't tell you. They're gray pants. They look big on whoever that might Q. Is your answer you can't tell us? A. I can't tell you. Q. They could be your gray pants? A. I own gray pants, and I've owned pants with cuffs, yes. Q. You have any reason to believe those pants are not yours? A. Only the shoes lead me to believe that those are not my pants. Q. Forget the shoes focusing on the pants, are the pants yours? A. I don't know. Q. You don't know? A. They look a little big in the legs. Q. Let's go to the belt. Is the belt yours? A. I can't tell. Q. You don't know? A. I can't tell. Q. Is the jacket yours? A. I mean, I've owned plenty of -- if -- I can't tell from here if it's a Q. Is the jacket yours? A. I don't know. Q. You don't know? A. It looks like it could be my jacket. Q. You're saying you can't tell if that's your jacket or not? A. It looks like that's my jacket, yes. Q. Is that your opinion, that it is your jacket? A. That would be my opinion, yes. Q. And the tie? A. I know I had a tie that looked like that, yes. Q. And that tie is yours, right? A. I had a tie like that, so I would say yes. Q. And the white shirt. Is that your white shirt? A. By the collar of the shirt, I knew I had shirts that looked like that, yes. Q. And the hands and the upper torso, that's all you, right? A. Yeah. Yes, I would say so. Q. So it's basically the shoes that you question, right? A. Yes. The pants somewhat, too. MR. PETROCELLI: Do we have the video? Put it on. We've got to get the other pictures up. (The instrument herein referred to as a videotape depicting Mr. Simpson wearing (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2221 was played in open court.) Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, there's a -- MR. PETROCELLI: What exhibit number is that? MR. MEDVENE: Next in order. THE CLERK: 2221. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Is that the same jacket, tie, and shirt, Mr. Simpson? A. It looks the same, yes. Q. Okay. And that's -- you don't have any reason to think that those are not your items A. From what I could see. Q. Is that where it ends? A. Yes. I'm trying to see the colors. Yeah, that still looks like -- Q. And that's TV footage from the same game, right? A. I would assume so, yes. MR. PETROCELLI: One second. Where are the other pictures, the other Scull pictures? If you've got the rest of the video, put it on. (Videotape played in open court.) MR. PETROCELLI: Same exhibit. This is the same game. Now, stop it there. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, you see you're wearing these same belt and gray A. I can't really tell, but they are gray pants, and I can't really tell what Q. You can make out the tie there, can't you? A. Yes. Q. Same tie, same shirt, right? A. That's right. Q. You can see that the pants there are gray, can you? MR. PETROCELLI: You can't blow that up, can you, Steve? We finally found something you can't do? A. I would say that the pants were gray pants, yeah. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) So, basically everything is there. Is it -- you can see A. Yes. Q. Same belt, same pants, same everything, right? A. No. The coat is obviously a raincoat. Q. Well, that's a different coat you put on, right? A. Yes. Q. So, that change your mind a little bit on the pants, make you sure that A. No. Q. That the -- that the pants you're wearing here are the same pants depicted A. No, that didn't change my mind. Q. Doesn't change your mind, seeing it on the video? A. No. I'm sure I wore gray pants that day because I normally wear gray pants. Q. Do you think the video is a fraud too? A. Not at all. Q. Okay. MR. PETROCELLI: Put that picture on. What exhibit number is this, Steve? MR. FOSTER: 1918.. MR. GELBLUM: 1918. MR. PETROCELLI: 1918. (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 1918 displayed on the TV screen.) Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) And that's a picture of you interviewing Keith Byers? A. It appears to be, yes. Q. Who was then on the Miami Dolphins? A. That's correct. Q. And again, that's before game time, right? A. I don't know. Could have been after. Q. And there you're wearing the same outfit depicted in the picture of you A. From the waist up, yes. Q. The same tie, shirt, and jacket? A. Appears to be, yes. Q. Now, is it your opinion that picture's a fraud? A. Well -- Q. Yes or no? A. I would say no. Q. Not a fraud? A. Yes. MR. PETROCELLI: Now, you got the next one. (The instrument herein referred to as Photograph of Mr. Simpson standing by (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 1916 displayed on the TV screen.) MR. PETROCELLI: Next exhibit is Exhibit 1916. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Do you recognize that photograph, right? A. Yes. Q. And that's a photograph of you doing a shot, again, before the game? A. Yes. Q. Later on, it got cold and little rainy, and you put on the raincoat, right? A. Well it rained before and after and during, so I had it on; I took it off; I Q. Now, the jacket, the tie, the shirt, and the pants, they are the same as the A. That's correct. MR. PETROCELLI: And is this 1916, Steve? Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Is it your opinion that that photograph, 1916, is a A. Not my opinion, no. Q. It's January, right? A. I would assume so, yes. MR. PETROCELLI: Okay. You can take it off. Q. You're not able to produce those shoes in court that you're wearing in that MR. BAKER: Object, Your Honor. That is depicted in the photograph; you'll go THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You can answer. You cannot bring to this courtroom the shoes depicted in that photograph? A. The shoes depicted in this photograph, no. Q. And by the way, you still think those shoes are ugly-ass shoes that you're A. Not as ugly as the ones in the courtroom. I don't think those are attractive shoes, no. MR. PETROCELLI: Okay. You can take it -- take the board in, too, Steve. (Exhibit board is removed.) MR. PETROCELLI: I've got one area left. Like to take a short break before, Your THE COURT: Right now? MR. PETROCELLI: Yeah, if that would be okay. THE COURT: All right. Ten minutes, ladies and gentlemen. (Recess.) (The Jurors resume their respective seats.) MR. PETROCELLI: Thank you very much, Your Honor. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) I'd like to turn to June 17, Mr. Simpson, Friday. A. Yes. Q. You were staying at the Kardashians' house since you left Rockingham -- A. Yes. Q. And you had, over at the Kardashians' house, your black grip, right? A. Yes. Q. And during the week, that grip was in the bedroom in which you slept, right? A. Well, it was in a closet, yes. Q. And there were times during that week when you put items in that bag, true? A. I don't believe so, no. Q. For example, on Friday, you put a passport in that bag, correct? A. That's incorrect. That's incorrect. Q. There was a passport on the bedside table, not in the bag, a passport A. I saw that testimony, but that was incorrect. Q. You saw what testimony? A. Paula Barbieri. Q. So you remember her testimony? A. I was there. Yes. Q. And she testified that your passport was on the bedside table, right? A. Yes. Q. And you say that she is wrong, right? A. Yes. THE COURT: Mr. Simpson, would you pull that microphone a little bit to you; Thank you. THE WITNESS: Thank you. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) In the shooting of that Playboy video in very late May, A. I bought a -- a little goatee and a moustache. Q. And when you say you bought it, you called Cathy Randa, your assistant, and A. That's incorrect. Q. And the video -- excuse me -- the disguise kit was delivered to your house A. I believe so, yes. Q. And it was put on your desk in your office at Rockingham, correct? A. I believe so, yes. Q. And it was there on your desk at Rockingham as late as Friday, June 10, A. That's incorrect. Q. Your story is, you put it in your bag earlier, right? MR. BAKER: Object to the question; argumentative. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Is that your testimony, sir; you put it in your bag A. It was put in my bag almost when -- whenever it first arrived at my house. Q. So your testimony, sir, is that the disguise was put in your bag by what, A. Whenever it came to my house, I put all the mail -- I tend to put my mail in Q. And since around May 28, May 29, it's your testimony that the disguise kit A. Correct. Q. Never once taken out, correct? A. I never took it out, no. Unless Vannatter took it out. I didn't take it out. MR. PETROCELLI: Move to strike, Your Honor, "unless Vannatter took it out." MR. BAKER: I think that's responsive. He asked if anybody ever took it out. THE COURT: Stricken. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) So it's your testimony, then, from the -- let's say June A. I'm sorry. Until? I'm sorry. Would you repeat that? Q. I would. Between June 1 and June 12, 1994, at no time was that disguise kit on your desk A. From the time -- and I don't know if it was June 1 or May 2 -- from the time Q. It was in the bag, then, as of June 5, correct? A. Yes. Q. And not in your office, correct? A. When I say June 5, I said whatever time it went into the bag. Q. Which date? A. I don't know exactly. Q. Which, June 10? A. I wouldn't know. I just know on the weekend of June 12, it was in the bag. Q. It was delivered on May 27. A. So at some time after that, it went into the bag. Q. How long after that? A. Whenever I was taking mail to the office. Q. Did you have it in your -- did you put it in your bag at any time on Friday. A. No. Q. So it was in your bag as of June 9, then, right? A. Certainly as of June 9, yes. Q. And probably a lot sooner, a lot earlier than that? A. I would say so, yes. Q. Okay. Now, when you left the Kardashian house -- excuse me. When you left your house to go to the Kardashian house, you took about eight or A. I possibly had about that much with me, yes. Q. That money was in your bedroom, underneath some sweaters, right? A. Maybe. When I came back from New York on Friday, I had about eight or nine When I went to Chicago, I only took three or four, and I put four or five Q. And when you came back from Chicago, after the police had searched your A. We walked into the closet with Lange and with Skip, and Bob Kardashian. I Q. They did not take your money? A. No. Q. They did not steal your money? A. They did not. Q. The police did not? A. That's correct. Q. And you had that money with you when you were at the Kardashian house, and A. I believe so, yes. Q. And you had your passport with you that morning, as well, right? A. I keep it in my bag, yes. Q. You had that disguise kit, right? A. It was, I assume, in the bag. Q. You also had a key to Nicole's condominium, correct? A. I'm not aware of that, no. Q. You were aware that there was a Smokey the Bear key? MR. BAKER: Well, I'm going to object. Q. Excuse me. Withdrawn. You aware there was a key on a Smokey the Bear key ring found in your black A. I'm not really aware of that no. Q. You're not aware of that? A. I don't know, when you say Smokey the Bear from -- Q. You know, a little Smokey the Bear ring that had a key attached to it? A. I know there was were numerous keys in my bag, yes. Q. Are you aware there was one such key that was attached to a Smokey the Bear A. I can't say that I do know about it. I can't say that I know about a Smokey Q. You didn't know you had it? A. I knew I had key rings in there; I just don't recall any Smokey the Bear. Q. Isn't it true that you had a key to Nicole's condominium in your possession A. That's inaccurate. That is not true. Q. Now, after you were informed that the police were coming to arrest you on A. At one point, yes. Q. You knew the police were coming to arrest you for the murders of Ronald A. That's correct. Q. You knew that you were going to jail? A. That's correct. Q. And you decided rather than submit to the arrest, that you would flee, A. I would go to Nicole's grave, yes. Q. You decided to leave, right? A. I decided to go to Nicole's grave site. Q. You decided to leave the Kardashian house without informing the authorities, A. That's correct. Q. And you left sometime around noontime, right? A. I really don't know. Q. And you left with your friend, boyhood friend, Al Cowlings? A. Yes. Q. And you had with you, your black grip, right? A. Yes. Q. In other words, you say you were going to Nicole's grave, right? A. Yes. Q. But you took your black grip with you, right? A. It was the only way I could carry the pictures that I put in there. Q. Well, you could have just taken the pictures, right? A. I guess I could have. But I also had a gun. Q. And -- but you took the grip that had a lot of other stuff in it, right? A. Yeah. I'm sure there was other stuff in there, yes. Q. And it had the disguise in there, right? A. It had the little goatee and mustache in there, yes. Q. And it had the passport, and you had the money between Al Cowlings and you, A. No. I had maybe $2 on me. Q. You gave Cowlings the money, right? A. I gave him the money earlier that day, yes. Q. So he had it, right? A. I assume so. I don't know. I gave him the cash and told him to give it to my Q. Now, before you left the house, when you knew the police were coming and you A. I believe so, yes. Q. And you gave that letter to Bob Kardashian and said "you'll know when to A. I think I gave it to AC, and maybe he gave it to Bob Kardashian. Q. And your state of mind in writing that letter was that you were A. That's correct. Q. And the reason you were contemplating killing yourself is because you were A. I was in a lot of pain; that's why -- that may have been a part of it, the Q. The media part of it was that they were saying things about you that you A. I knew were untrue. Q. And you remember, in the deposition, I asked you to tell me all the things A. Yes. Q. And your testimony was that the only thing you could remember that whole A. That was the first story I heard. And it got worse as the week went on. Q. That was really the only thing you were able to tell me at the deposition? A. It was the only thing I recall. All you have to do is look at tapes of the Q. The only thing you could recall when you -- when you gave testimony in your A. That was the first thing after -- before the weeks, so... Q. This particular report really bothered you, accusing you of being loud and A. I don't know. It was just what was happening, the pain I was feeling. I couldn't understand why he would lie like that. Q. And one of the reasons that it hurt you so much is because your image means A. That's not even close. Q. And in your autobiography, Education of a Rookie, do you remember what the A. No. Q. -- of it? A. No. Q. Well, if I were to tell you that the name of that chapter was "A Question of A. Well -- Q. -- would that refresh your recollection? A. No, it wouldn't. And I didn't write any of the chapter titles. Q. Well, you're not disavowing that book now, are you, sir? A. Never have, no. Q. And you never will, right? A. No. Q. Now, a good part of your letter that you wrote, the so-called suicide A. I don't know. I don't know how you would characterize it. Q. There isn't a single word in all those pages, for example, expressing any A. I think I started off by saying that I did not commit those crimes. Q. But there isn't a single word in those pages that you wrote, contemplating A. I think the whole act of what -- Q. Is that true? A. -- of what I was doing was because of that. Q. Is that true, sir? A. Because -- is what, sir? Q. There's not a single word in that document expressing sorrow for Nicole's A. Probably not, no. But I feel the whole letter went to my sorrow. Q. Your sorrow? A. Yes. Q. Yeah. Now, there were a bunch of other items in Al Cowlings' car, by the way, like A. I don't know about that, no. Q. In the back of the car? A. I'm not aware of that. Q. A windbreaker, socks, underwear, shirts -- A. I'm not aware of that, no. Q. Okay. And you had a gun, right? A. Yes. Q. And then you started to become -- your infamous ride in the Bronco with Mr. MR. BAKER: I object to the characterization. It's argumentative. THE COURT: I'll sustain it. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You took off in the Bronco, Cowlings' Bronco, right? A. That's correct. Q. And you ended up returning to Rockingham some eight or nine hours later, A. I really was kind of lost time, so I don't know how long it was. Q. And there was a time near the end there, near the end there, sir, when you A. I don't know. Q. Do -- you don't you recall Mr. Lange calling you while you were on the cell A. I remember -- I didn't know Mr. Lange from anyone else, and I do remember Q. Do you recall Detective Tom Lange urging you, begging you not to harm A. I believe that was what whoever I was talking to was trying to tell me. Q. Do you recall Detective Tom Lange trying to convince you to just put the gun Do you remember all that? MR. BAKER: I object to relevance, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Do you remember that, sir? A. I believe whoever I was talking to, that was the substance of what they were Q. And remember, you're saying the following: "Just tell them all I'm sorry. You can tell them later on today and tomorrow Do you remember saying that? A. And I also remember telling them -- Q. Yes or no? A. -- I didn't do it. Q. Do you remember saying that? A. No, I don't remember that, no. But I probably did. Q. Excuse me. Just answer the questions; we'll get through this. A. Oh. Yes. Q. Do you remember saying the following to Tom Lange: "Hey, you've been a good guy too, man, Lange. Thanks. You let me tell you, I And you said -- just saying, you're doing your job; I know you're doing a good Do you remember saying that to Detective Lange? A. I don't recall it, but that would be something that I would say. Q. And do you recall Detective Lange saying to you, "And nobody's going to get And you replied, "I'm the only one that deserves it." Do you recall saying A. Not at all. Q. You deny saying that? A. I don't recall saying that at all. Q. If it's on a tape, you wouldn't dispute it, would you? A. Let me hear the tape. Q. And you recall telling Mr. Lange near the end, you've been a good guy, man, MR. BAKER: I object to the relevance of this. Q. MR. PETROCELLI: Now, do you recall saying that? THE COURT: Overruled. A. I don't recall saying it, but I think that's the way I was feeling towards Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, Mr. Simpson, at no time did you tell Detective You never said that, did you? A. At that point? Q. Yes or no. A. I didn't know what they were doing. I know I told them I didn't do it on numerous occasions on that ride. Q. At no time did you say, why have you planted all this evidence against me? MR. BAKER: Your Honor -- A. I had no idea what the evidence was. THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You said none of those things to Detective Lange, did A. I had no idea what the evidence was. Q. You knew there was blood; you knew there was -- there were gloves; you knew A. No. Q. You knew there was blood found on your property, and you knew there was A. I knew there was blood, yes. Q. And at no time did you ever utter a word to Detective Lange, why aren't you MR. BAKER: This is argument. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Why did you frame me? You never said any of those things to Detective Lange, true? MR. BAKER: Objection; compound, argumentative. THE COURT: It is compound, argumentative. Sustained. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You never accused Detective Lange of being framed by the A. I had no idea who Detective Lange was and I didn't know what had taken place Q. You never accused whoever you spoke to on the phone of framing you? A. All I -- Q. True or untrue? A. All I can do is say -- and I told him time and time again, I didn't do this. MR. PETROCELLI: Move to strike as nonresponsive. THE COURT: Stricken as nonresponsive. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Please. And the question -- you never accused the person on the telephone from the A. Correct. Q. Or framing you for a murder that you did not commit? Correct? A. That's correct. Q. And the reason you didn't do so, Mr. Simpson, is because you knew you A. That's incorrect. Q. And that is why you were going to kill yourself, because you knew you were A. That's incorrect. Q. And you knew that you dropped the blood at Bundy, correct? A. That's incorrect. Q. And knew, sir, that you went there that night and you confronted Nicole and MR. BAKER: Your Honor, I'm going to object. Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) -- correct? MR. BAKER: This has been asked and a speech is already -- Q. (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Correct? MR. BAKER: It's already been asked and answered. THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer. A. No, Mr. Petrocelli. That's totally, absolutely incorrect. Q. And Ronald Goldman came upon you when you were there with Nicole, and you MR. BAKER: I'm going to object. A. I don't know Ron Goldman. THE COURT: Overruled. Q. And Ronald Goldman got into a fight with you as he tried to stop you, and A. Untrue. Q. And you left him there to die, Mr. Simpson, with his eyes open, looking A. That's untrue. MR. PETROCELLI: I have no further questions. THE COURT: You may begin. MR. BAKER: We can start anytime you like. If you want me to start now -- MR. BREWER: Your Honor, we have some questions. We'd like to approach. MR. BAKER: I'm going object to that. We've been through -- MR. BREWER: We can deal with this at side bar. We have questions. We would like I'd like to have a hearing on that, go till 4:30. THE COURT: Approach the bench. (The following proceedings were held at the bench, with the reporter.) THE COURT: What is the scope of your examination? MR. BREWER: Well, the scope of the examination is to cover at least the areas THE COURT: I'm not going to let's you go over the same area -- MR. BREWER: I'm not going to go over the same area. THE COURT: -- covered, because as far as I can tell, there are only two sides And I indicated to you at the beginning of the trial, that I was not going to MR. BREWER: That is not our intention. And you know we are a party, so we have THE COURT: As far as I'm concerned you're an aside. MR. BREWER: That's not what the statute says. THE COURT: I'm going to treat you as an aside. MR. BREWER: So you are denying us a right under 776 to cross-examine him? THE COURT: You may cross-examine him. I'm not going to permit you to go over MR. BREWER: It's not my intention. First of all, Judge, I don't have a lot of questions. It's really not my THE COURT: Name one. MR. BREWER: For example, the flight back from Chicago. There is testimony from I'd like to develop that there is testimony relative to his emotional response THE COURT: That was asked and answered. MR. BREWER: No it was not. THE COURT: Yes, it was. MR. BREWER: No, it was not. THE COURT: I ruled it was. MR. BREWER: I can tell that when he was told, when his wife was murdered -- In We don't think that's consistent with someone told that their wife is dead, The other would be, there would be testimony relative to discussions he had And then I would intend also to compile a list of witnesses that Mr. Simpson THE COURT: Excuse me. Say that again. MR. BREWER: I intend to have Mr. Simpson identify every single person who's MR. BAKER: That's argument. THE COURT: What is the relevance of that? MR. BREWER: The relevance of that is to illustrate Mr. Simpson -- putting him THE COURT: I'm not going to permit that. MR. BREWER: That would be the other area. THE COURT: So far, you've told me only one area that I would permit. MR. BREWER: What areas? THE COURT: Two areas. The flight on the airplane and the testimony with regards MR. BREWER: How about the area where -- in response to how he reacted? THE COURT: I already ruled on that. Okay. Mr. Kelly. MR. KELLY: Your Honor, I had an area I was going to pick up on from Mr. Other than that, I was not going to go into other areas. MR. BAKER: They went into that area almost a whole half-day. MR. KELLY: I understand that where we left off was in Michelle's room. I was THE COURT: Okay. MR. BREWER: There are two other areas I didn't mention. On the suicide note, there are other statements that I would -- He mentioned in opening statement that I would like to address to Mr. Simpson. THE COURT: Real what? MR. BREWER: The real O.J. He says that in the suicide note. Those are all THE COURT: I'll permit that. MR. BREWER: And there is one other area that is -- it is something Mr. That is, in the Bronco, if you recall, he addressed the areas of the interior THE COURT: No. MR. BREWER: No? THE COURT: You may not go into that. MR. KELLY: Judge, with regard to the '89 incident, when we pick up Michelle's MR. BREWER: What's that? MR. KELLY: I was going to play that ten-second portion of the tape, also. THE COURT: What ten-second portion? MR. KELLY: Of the 911 tape, that it's from Michelle's room, that was not THE COURT: What are you talking about? What are you talking about? MR. KELLY: When Mr. Simpson arrives in the housekeeper's room where Nicole is, THE COURT: Take it from there forward? MR. KELLY: Yes, to some of the subsequent acts when he left the property and THE COURT: Okay. MR. KELLY: Okay. That's all. (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the MR. BREWER: Okay, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. MR. BREWER: Thank you. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BREWER: Q. Mr. Simpson, when you left Los Angeles and headed back to Chicago on the THE COURT: Just a minute. I have a note here. I've got to take care of this. Okay. We're going to adjourn until 8:30 tomorrow morning. Don't talk about the case, ladies and gentlemen. Don't form or express any Counsel remain, please. (Jurors exit the courtroom.) (The notes of the proceedings at this point were ordered sealed by the Court, (The following proceedings were held in chambers, outside the presence of the THE COURT: The Court is excusing a juror for the reason that she is unable to Tomorrow morning, we will draw by lot, a juror to fill that spot. Okay. Thank you. MR. BAKER: Thank you. MR. BREWER: Your Honor, just one more matter that -- I assume that part of the THE COURT: That's sealed, except for the excusing part, that last part of MR. BREWER: Your Honor, we had a side bar, wherein Mr. Baker had voiced an On cross, under 776 -- and I just want to bring to the Court's attention the I would also request that the Court allow us the opportunity to review my notes THE COURT: Quite opposite. We set the ground rules. The ground rule was, you MR. BREWER: And I do agree with that, Judge. The only points I made in side bar are, there are areas that are not So I agree. It's not my intention nor my desire to go over the same testimony THE COURT: I'm not in the habit of going back on my rulings. MR. BREWER: I know. THE COURT: I'm going to stand by them. If there's any particular area that you MR. BREWER: Okay. THE COURT: You made an agreement; I'm going to stick you right with your word, MR. BREWER: Okay. MR. BAKER: One other thing: If I put Mr. Simpson on, if I go into half the THE COURT: On your -- MR. BAKER: Yeah. MR. PETROCELLI: Can we talk briefly? We don't have to be on the record, Your Honor, Judge. (At 4:50 p.m., an adjournment was taken until Tuesday, November 26, 1996, at |